Arcane Research + Manifest

[undead knight]

Can consistently put you to 8 resources on turn two.

Arcane Research sending 4 Manifest during your opponent's end step.
Play an Obsession for turn.
Open Resource: 4, Total Resources: 4
Pay 2, put a Manifest into play as a resource
Open Resource: 3, Total Resources: 5
Pay 2, put a Manifest into play as a resource
Open Resource: 2, Total Resources: 7
Pay 2, put a Manifest into play as a resource
Open Resource: 1, Total Resources: 8

After this point, you can just generally tear your opponent to pieces. Having 9 resources going into turn 3 is something most decks cannot compete against, especially seeing as that's a turn four Degenerate Molestation and Arcanist play more than enough ways to search that to hand.

You can then use the Manifests as a draw engine, paying 1 to draw each time you play them, then effectively paying three to put them all back into play. You wind up with 4 draws for the cost of one.

In order to fix this, you would either need to ban Arcane Research or errata Manifest and the Greed, Elitism and Deception equivalents to say "You can only play one of this card as a resource per turn". Otherwise I can see some crazy dual faction decks happening.

[Asuryan]

For even more acceleration, Arcane Research for 3 Manifests and a Rouse. Then on your first turn return all three Manifests and Rouse the Arcane Research. On the next turn draw the Arcane Research and get a bunch of Hidden Ruins or Accidental Inventions, etc, and a Karmic Cake if you don't have the right resource in hand. Rinse and repeat to taste. By turn 3 or 4 you could have oodles of resources out, without having had to use any of the cards in your hand (apart from the Arcane Research).

I don't think it's overpowered though, just strong. It also ties you up for the first turn, so it's generally bad against an aggressive deck (like SiN), doubly so because the Arcane Research engine makes you want to be going second.

It's about the same as 1337! -> Senior -> Junior, IMO.

[undead knight]

The difference between this and 1337! -> Senior -> Junoir is that this will draw you 4 cards per turn, while Senior and Junior will only get you one.

On top of that, Senior Junior is only a draw engine, while Arcane + Manifest is a superior draw engine AND a search engine

But to take your example to the next level, what if you opened two Obsession, sent 4 Accidental Invention and then used this engine AS WELL AS the Gearsmith one. I'd almost guarantee a turn 5 Time Traveller Tourist Traps.

[Asuryan]

The other problem with the Arcane Research - Manifest engine is that it requires you to be in mono-Arcanist, or at least heavily enough Arcanist that you're both starting with Obsession and playing a decent number of Obsession in your deck, which usually means you're mono.

[Oneyus]

yeah, but unearthing something like this makes people want to go out and get the cards if they don't already have them (which means either buying singles or more boxes = support for the game = Big + in my book). Then again there is trading, but I still think coming up with combinations like this encourage some % of people to go out an buy.


On the topic of the actual card interaction: It doesn't sound too overpowered to me. Out of 75 cards, how often are you going to draw 1 or your 4 arcane research turn 1 even with an aggressive mulligan?

[Asuryan]

On the topic of the actual card interaction: It doesn't sound too overpowered to me. Out of 75 cards, how often are you going to draw 1 or your 4 arcane research turn 1 even with an aggressive mulligan?

You mean turn zero. From 9 cards with an aggressive mulligan you just need an Arcane Research in the top quarter of your deck. That's pretty reliable. (Not that I think there's a problem with that; I agree with you that the engine is fine.)

[Oneyus]

I loaded a test deck into OCTGN and found that the deck does consistently draw the Arcane research, but at times you run into the problem of actually having the Manfifests in hand which I think would not altogether stop the process but slow it down since you could just play the Manifests to get them into your discard pile.

I agree with Asuryan though about having to play a primarily mono Arcanist deck for this to go off with regularity. The second you reduce your ratio of obsession, this engine slows down or might not happen until a time in the game when its too late. At least these are my thoughts on it.

[Asuryan]

On top of that, Senior Junior is only a draw engine, while Arcane + Manifest is a superior draw engine AND a search engine

I think you're overestimating the potential of this as a draw engine. It's a great acceleration engine, which over time will draw you more cards, but actually flipping up the Manifests and re-triggering them to bring them back is a very resource-intensive way to draw cards. It would only be a good play when it happens to round out your curve for the turn or something, IMO. Otherwise you're better off leaving the Manifests face down and just drawing cards the old fashioned way.

Merry Thabbashtide everyone.

[undead knight]

I think everyone's missing that other factions have versions of Manifest.

I can see a seriously insane Arcanist Gearsmith deck here using Accidental Invention instead of Manifest, and then using 1337! and the Reasearchers alongside Contriving Engineer and the Arcanist bounce to ramp you up by fifteen to twenty resources by about turn four. Then abuse bouncing Micromajig Masters to not only spam micromajigs, but to search your entire deck.

I'm sure there's equally crazy Rogue and Banker versions too.

Merry Majigmas!

[Asuryan]

I can see a seriously insane Arcanist Gearsmith deck here using Accidental Invention instead of Manifest, and then using 1337! and the Reasearchers alongside Contriving Engineer and the Arcanist bounce to ramp you up by fifteen to twenty resources by about turn four. Then abuse bouncing Micromajig Masters to not only spam micromajigs, but to search your entire deck.

I'm sure there's equally crazy Rogue and Banker versions too.

Sounds fun.