Ectypal Stave & Flip up

[earley207]

Hoping to get an answer to this prior to Champs this weekend. When using the duplicate effect of the Stave, if the tactic was activated with a flip up cost, is this the cost paid as part of the Stave, or do you pay the cost in the corner of the card?

My understanding is that you cannot respond to your own actions, so this would only apply to duplicating your opponents tactic, correct?

Thanks in advance for any feedback/answers provided.

[Falsesanity]

You can respond to your own actions... or else Strength in Numbers would be a horrible bad card.

My understanding to the stave is it works much like a forced recruitment, it goes on the cost paid.

If you play something for free when it has a numeric cost of something more and it is a legal target for the stave the stave would pay 2 plus the cost that was paid... like your opponent 1337!'s into strangulate.. you would pay 2 to activate the stave plus the cost they just played the strangulate for of 0

[earley207]

Thanks for the response.

To use your example if I may to clarify: My opponent plays Strangulate destroying one of my characters. I can respond to this with Ectypal paying 2, plus either 0, 2, or 4 depending on how Strangulate was paid for, and then destroy one of my opponents characters (4 life or less)?

[Falsesanity]

correct

*edit*

add in voidal replication... and well I am still confused

[Fist of Gales]

Wouldnt this rule apply if you used Ectypal stave when the last tactic that turn was played using flip up?

405.1 The numeric cost of a card that is not currently being played is equal to its cost number, located in its upper-left corner.

Since the "last tactic played this turn" cant be "currently being played"

[KingOfBadaBing]

You can respond to your own actions... or else Strength in Numbers would be a horrible bad card.

My understanding to the stave is it works much like a forced recruitment, it goes on the cost paid.

If you play something for free when it has a numeric cost of something more and it is a legal target for the stave the stave would pay 2 plus the cost that was paid... like your opponent 1337!'s into strangulate.. you would pay 2 to activate the stave plus the cost they just played the strangulate for of 0

This is not entirely correct.

First, you can't respond to your own actions. Strength in Numbers isn't actually responding to yourself attacking, its simply played in a phase where you can play tactics in a battle.

Secondly, the Stave doesn't work exactly like Force Recruitment. In certain situations it goes on the cost paid, otherwise it goes on the straight numeric cost of the card it is duplicating.

Here's why
405.1The numeric cost of a card that is not currently being played is equal to its cost number, located in its upper-left corner.

So, if you are activating the Ectypal Stave after a tactic has resolved, you simply pay the cost. In the case of Strangulate, this would be 2 (Ectypal Base Cost) +4 (played normally). This would be regardless if the Strangulate was played after a 1337! or reduced by a Senior Research Assistant.

If you are using the Stave in response to the Strangulate, then the cost can be lower. This is because the card is currently being played and the numeric cost can shift at this point. So, if an opponent plays a 1337!, follows with a Strangulate, and you respond by activating the Ectypal Stave, the Stave would only cost 2 (base 2 + the "reduced to 0" cost of Strangulate).

The difference is simply when the Stave is being activated. If it is activated after a Tactic has resolved, no cost reductions/increases that were used on that Tactic apply, if it is used in response, they do.
________
Buy vaporizers

[caveboybc]

Yup, kingofbadabing is right on!

Here's why
405.1The numeric cost of a card that is not currently being played is equal to its cost number, located in its upper-left corner.




Stave's cost could only use the flip up cost as a modifier if played in response to the flip-up tactic. If it is your stave and your flip-up the cost would be the numeric cost of the tactic as the modifier for stave.

[Falsesanity]

COUNTERFEIT
COST: Use this only if a tactic has been played this turn. Pay 2+X, where X is the numeric cost of the last tactic played this turn. Deplete this card.
EFFECT: Duplicate the tactic.


Wouldn't this mean the stave can only select played tactics not tactics being played then?

Wouldn't this make it impossible to use it in response to a tactic and it would either be an illegal action if a tactic was not played yet this turn (Being played and played are 2 different things correct?) Or it would go off the last tactic that was played this turn not the tactic that is currently being played but has not yet resolved

[Hordak]

The tactic is considered played after all costs have been payed. As such, since it's both Being Played and has Been Played for the purposes of the game, this is the only window in which you copy its cost(s) based on current conditions.

Examples of where this is good: Forced Recruitment on a 1337'd SRA (yay), Ectypical Stave in response to a flipped-up Strangulate.

Examples of where this is bad: Voidal Replication in response to a monster Cash Out (you pay the 0 + the 2X they paid + 2 * whatever you choose for X). Ectypical Stave in response to a flipped up Heroic Deed (why you'd do this, nobody knows but it doesn't mean you can't )

[Lioge]

Kingofbadabing and Hordak are spot on here.

QFT