Challenge...

[s0b3k]

I was speaking w/ dylan mayo at the 13k and he informed me that spoils players as a whole have not yet built the best deck possible, he said that Bin's deck was close to being tier one but still fell short of what the RD guys have built, he also said we have not utilized the best card in constructed the only hint he gave me was that the deck was greed rogue... any ideas guys?

[Hordak]

Hmm...interesting.

I'll mull it over. Dylan always hints as much when we speak for the purposes of my show but I guess we'll see what people come up with.

[jty3]

Thanks for the info. One day maybe we'll see some of those R&D decks.

[smilelttldevil]

Can anyone link Bin's deck? I can't remember where it is

[Tempest]

maybe he means something with downsizing, GTA?

[StrangeDays]

Bin's decklist is with the others in the "13K GenCon deck lists" thread in the Tournament Reports forum. I'll repost the list here, though.

2nd [GenCon 13K Constructed]
Bin Chen

2 Greed [start]
5 Greed
10 Rage
4 Shriever Attack
4 Bask Bile
3 Humiliating Torture Apparatus
2 Deadly Striker
3 Flaming Barduse
1 Rabid Sarume
2 Blow Up
4 Irresistible Bribe
4 Free Trade Agreement
4 Gold Summit
4 Selective Gluttony
4 Inside Information
4 Keen Stratagem
4 Limited Liability
3 Writ of Reclamation
4 Erotic Assassin
4 The Ministry of Other Smaller Ministries


I can imagine using the same engine to get to an end state with Banker/Rogue where you win by stealing everything on the board while they have an empty deck. That would almost definitely feel more abusive to the player on the receiving end. It seems easier / more consistent getting to that (extreme late game) end state Bin's way though, with the Shrievers and dragons to clear the board early/mid. [ninja edit - at 10 cost, Downsizing is a late game card; it isn't very relevant to surviving early aggro]

Gluttony into Revivatate discarding Snooty Doorman/Master Thief and Erotic Assassin seems great. But the resources aren't easy and without the board sweepers it seems like you either have to have Gold Summit out when you Gluttony the first time or hit Revivatate with enough resources (and decent discards) to use it. Having Gold Summit out early means spending an early turn playing a location that needs board presence to defend it. You can do this vs. almost anything if your first turn play is Snooty & Erotic, but if we're assuming we can get that opening plus Summit plus Gluttony plus threshold plus... and consistently? And a pony. Without the 10 life, missing the Revivatate or the threshold seems like a good way to waste a turn early-mid game as the control player (which should earn you a boot to head vs. a good aggressive deck).

To my mind, the winning synergies in Bin's deck are the strong end game with one of the best possible removal packages for controlling the board in the midgame - letting him survive to the end game consistently. The Writ/Bile loop isn't infinite, so there is some problem with the end game vs. the mirror or vs. other life-gaining decks. That's a place where Writ/Yoink! (w/ Creed) or /Jackmove, /GTA or something could be better, but the bigger threat for games in the Swiss rounds will be draws or decisions by concession b/c of time limit, if people play at normal speeds.

This deck does lean heavily on its locations, particularly Free Trade Agreement and Ministry (esp. w/ Liability). If it becomes prevalent enough, location hate could find its way into decks; or responses like Tactician Vacation or Voidal Interference could see more play (also SiN could bring back Juice). If the locations don't buy at least a turn, preferably more, then they are not efficient. Since they have to be played on your turn, and so limit your possible responses to your opponent, that can be a recipe for disaster if your opponent can consistently answer them (while beating face).

This book-length response creates a whole host of ways for PAX's tournaments make me look clueless. I'll stop now.

[s0b3k]

i aggree that bin's deck is awesome, and creative but i'm just relaying what dylan said to me... he said we "havent even found the best card in constructed yet" so i'll assume it is in either rogue or banker and that when played w/ proper backup is very tough to deal with. though i cannot think of it it may be interesting to see what pops up in pax

[Catastro911]

I have a pretty interesting deck that is similar to MTG's Dragon Storm that I call Selective Sick can anyone guess how its supposed to win without the deck list? Hint: It's a combo deck.

PS: Sorry if this is off topic.

[D3501473_1]

... my guess is tremor engine with writ.... =P

[Killercoz]

i think i might have figured it out...

youll see it in a tournament


its a secret till then