Is TGI shooting itself in the foot already?

[plmrelm]

WotC recently announced that it will increae the prices of booster packs across the boards (Packs are now $3.99 each for 15 cards)

TGI has said that they are charging $3.99 for their 13 card packs.

Can TGI really hope to compete with the "first and best" while asking for the same pricing? In my opinion (and I'm not alone) TGI should have a lower price by which to compete. If you are going to spend $4.00 on a pack of cards which do you get: a well established game, or a newcomer?

Anyone else hear the WotC rumor of the "Return of the Power Nine?" This would draw even more attention away from THE SPOILS, if its true...

[jedibcg]

I think ultimately the quality of the game will decides The Spoils fate and not if there are 2 extra cards in the pack. But that is just my two cents worth.

[kuberr]

i dont think that the 2 extra cards will matter, but i agree completely that this game is likely to fade away as long as it costs this much. I was under the impression, dont ask me why, that this was going to be a low cost tournament game closer to poker than mtg.

While I dont see myself quitting Magic anytime soon, I was certainly excited about the prospect of having another game that I could focus on. I thought the Spoils was that game, until I realized the monetary commitment that was going to be necessary. This game has neither the history of Magic, or the comic book appeal of VS. I believe that most of the people who are interested in tcg's already have one that they play, and I see no reason for them to switch to this one.

I believe that the Spoils is as good or better, as far as game/tournament play, but i do not believe that people are willing to throw aside the money they have invested in other games just so they can invest even more money in this game.

If the spoils turns out to be a more skill based game than existing tcg's they might attract some of the high level competitors. Although I can only assume they will never have prize payouts equal to those of Hasbro or Upper deck Entertainment so most tcg Pros probably wont be switching. Besides all of that its the casual gamers, not the high level pros that determine the success of a game. I believe that price is one of the biggest factors for the casual gamer, and in that sense The Spoils will have no appeal to them.


Given all of this I dont see how the spoils will be steal any existing gamers (who wants to get rid or pricey card collections? or start yet another pricey card collection?), and I dont see anything in this game (such as well known comic characters) that would attract new players.

If this game costs $2/per pack it would have the potential to be huge, in my opinion, but at $4/pack I dont think this game will last for very long. I really hope this game succeeds, but i dont see my self spending hundreds of dollars a year to play it.

gl hf

[doc8466]

The difference in the packs is 2 comomon cards, right?
I can't imagine that missing out on 2 comomon cards would be the deciding factor in chosing which game to play.
My oppinion is that the better game will come out on top...given time.

[Brad Meine]

I don't really see any issue regarding there being two less cards to a pack VS MtG. I do, however, see there being a problem as far as the cost of these packs is concerned, though. A new game where (as I hear) four packs are going to be required to draft at $4 a piece? And I thought Magic was expensive...

[EndangeredMassa]

I don't know where you found that information, but other sources suggest that the price will be less than $4 a pack.

Shuffle and Cut (http://www.shuffleandcut.com/content/page/game/game/18/product/1078/The_Spoils_Sealed_Product_Pre-Sale.html) :: $2.79 / pack
PotomacDist (http://www.potomacdist.com/detail.asp?ItemId=spoilsbb&a=) :: $2.38 / pack (when you buy a box at a time)

For Reference: Packs will contain "1 rare, 3 uncommon and 9 common cards. Randomly inserted at a rate of approximately 1:4 packs will be special foil card in place of a common."

So, it looks like the MSRP will be close to $3.00 and the wholesale cost will be close to $2.40.

I suppose that these people could be misinformed. But, I know for a fact that PotomacDist honors any preorders that you make at the price you made them for even if the price later goes up. (The problem is that they have a $125 minimum order.)



If they do end up costing about $4.00, that would make me sad. If they are less than $3.00 a pack, that would be fine.

[Hypnotyc]

Anyone else hear the WotC rumor of the "Return of the Power Nine?" This would draw even more attention away from THE SPOILS, if its true...

No the power nine is not back... However with the release of the new set there are several new cards that have the exact same ability as the power nine cards.
Example
Lotus Blossom (no casting cost)
Suspend 3 (0: mana) - Remove this card from the game and put 3 time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep remove a time counter from this card. When you remove the last time counter you may play this card without playing its casting cost.

Sacrafice Lotus Blossom: Add 3 mana of any one color to your mana pool.

Or something like that.

[EndangeredMassa]

They are bringing some things back, but they are actually balanced this time. (If they actually reprinted the original Power Nine, the game would die almost instantly. Those cards break the game in a very bad way.)


Ultimately, the thing that will draw people to The Spoils is the prize support. (Yes, it does have to be a good game as well, which it is. But, you will see a lot more tournament players with a good amount of prize support.) So far, they have been doing very well in this area.

[Century]

I don't know where you found that information, but other sources suggest that the price will be less than $4 a pack.

Shuffle and Cut (http://www.shuffleandcut.com/content/page/game/game/18/product/1078/The_Spoils_Sealed_Product_Pre-Sale.html) :: $2.79 / pack
PotomacDist (http://www.potomacdist.com/detail.asp?ItemId=spoilsbb&a=) :: $2.38 / pack (when you buy a box at a time)

For Reference: Packs will contain "1 rare, 3 uncommon and 9 common cards. Randomly inserted at a rate of approximately 1:4 packs will be special foil card in place of a common."

So, it looks like the MSRP will be close to $3.00 and the wholesale cost will be close to $2.40.

I suppose that these people could be misinformed. But, I know for a fact that PotomacDist honors any preorders that you make at the price you made them for even if the price later goes up. (The problem is that they have a $125 minimum order.)



If they do end up costing about $4.00, that would make me sad. If they are less than $3.00 a pack, that would be fine.

MSRP is $3.99 per pack. Both places listed are discounting the game quite a bit.

Please support your local store, if you don't buy there, you might not have a place to play in the future.

[painted_klown]

I can't believe we are seeing threads like this already.:( Yes, The Spoils is going to do great. It is a great game and 2 common cards in a pack are not going to make or break a games success. The Spoils has not even been released yet........please everyone, give it an opportinity to be unleashed upon the world before we start holding a funeral.......There is nothing about the ccg/tcg market that points to the end of The Spoils because of a msrp of $4.00. That is just what games cost these says, gamers have accepted that fact. It's not really a shock to me at all. Long live The Spoils!:D

[kuberr]

i agree its too early to count this game out, and i also agree that gamers have accepted the fact tcgs will be priced around $4/pack.

i think the problem lies in the fact that not enough people are willing to pay that much to play in two different games. This means that the spoils needs to attract people who have never played a tcg before or steal people from other tcgs. The only way that I can forsee any company accomplishing this is to have a game that costs half of what the established games cost.

If someone has never played a tcg, what would attract them to this one? I like the art and the flavor text, and the gameplay, but i dont think its so much better than every other game that people are suddenly going to want to play the spoils even though they didnt play any other tcgs.

As for stealing people from other tcgs, i dont see people quitting magic or vs anytime soon. maybe some of the smaller games will lose some people, but i doubt it will be in large numbers. The casual gamers are the ones they will need to steal in order to get enough players, and I just cant understand why a casual player of either system would switch to the spoils. It is funnier, and it might have slightly probably better game play. Is this enough to take down the current established games? i dont think so.

bottom line is that Magic has a stranglehold on the non comic loving tcg players and Vs. has the rest of them. In order for another game to make it to that level they will, unfortunately need something bigger than just being a better game. if the spoils can exist as a much smaller niche game then it might have a long life ahead of it.

in then end, if doc is right and the better game will win out, we will all eventually just play chess.

gl hf

most of the ideas in this post are over simplified, but i didnt feel like writing a term paper on why I dont think the spoils will survive with a MSRP of $4

[Jack Daniels]

this being the first game i have been interested in for a long time (4 years sence all my magic cards were stolen). i don't see the problem with 4$ a pack but i do have to agree that if it was even 1$ cheeper it would have a huge effect on the gaming community.

if we could get a TCG rep to post on this that would be great.

[joshlytle]

I don't really see any issue regarding there being two less cards to a pack VS MtG. I do, however, see there being a problem as far as the cost of these packs is concerned, though. A new game where (as I hear) four packs are going to be required to draft at $4 a piece? And I thought Magic was expensive...

The new 13 card pack is so that drafts can be only 3 packs. So don't worry!

[Jack Daniels]

what about the pricing?

[ShuffleAndCut]

I don't know where you found that information, but other sources suggest that the price will be less than $4 a pack.

Shuffle and Cut (http://www.shuffleandcut.com/content/page/game/game/18/product/1078/The_Spoils_Sealed_Product_Pre-Sale.html) :: $2.79 / pack
PotomacDist (http://www.potomacdist.com/detail.asp?ItemId=spoilsbb&a=) :: $2.38 / pack (when you buy a box at a time)

For Reference: Packs will contain "1 rare, 3 uncommon and 9 common cards. Randomly inserted at a rate of approximately 1:4 packs will be special foil card in place of a common."

So, it looks like the MSRP will be close to $3.00 and the wholesale cost will be close to $2.40.

I suppose that these people could be misinformed. But, I know for a fact that PotomacDist honors any preorders that you make at the price you made them for even if the price later goes up. (The problem is that they have a $125 minimum order.)



If they do end up costing about $4.00, that would make me sad. If they are less than $3.00 a pack, that would be fine.

MSRP is $4.00 a pack. I am being competative in my sales online at $2.79.

Furthermore, I'm not going to try to spread too many rumors, but I'm going to say a big "BUYER BEWARE" if you buy from Potomac. I've heard some very strong rumors that it may not be viewed upon favorably that Potomac is bypassing the retailer in the "Manufacturer to Distributor to Retailer to Customer" food chain. So it is very possible that you may preorder from Potomac, and then get an e-mail with a your money back 2 months later saying "Uh...we're sorry - we didn't get any Spoils product - we can't sell it to you."

I'm not saying this to try to drum up business for myself (though if it has that side effect I won't cry), but there is a food chain that is supposed to be followed. We know it, and the strong rumors I have heard is that TG knows it too.

Scott

[xezol]

Furthermore, I'm not going to try to spread too many rumors, but I'm going to say a big "BUYER BEWARE" if you buy from Potomac. I've heard some very strong rumors that it may not be viewed upon favorably that Potomac is bypassing the retailer in the "Manufacturer to Distributor to Retailer to Customer" food chain. So it is very possible that you may preorder from Potomac, and then get an e-mail with a your money back 2 months later saying "Uh...we're sorry - we didn't get any Spoils product - we can't sell it to you."

I'm not saying this to try to drum up business for myself (though if it has that side effect I won't cry), but there is a food chain that is supposed to be followed. We know it, and the strong rumors I have heard is that TG knows it too.

Scott

Just to respond to Scott's comments on Potomac. I have ordered from them for years and years and have never had a single problem. Their prices are very competitive their free shipping is just a sweet bonus.

[Dapuma]

Potomac is AWESOME.

I have ordered a TON of stuff from them and they always come through...their shipping is superfast, everything always arrives very well packed, and i have gotten alot of freebies for ordering through them.

I would highly recommend using them to order from.

Not really sure why Scott would say that other than to try to drum up business for himself, Potomac generally has the best prices on the next except for WotC D&D minis

[Biggin]

Everything I have seen about this game, including the price, indicates that Tenacious Games is doing everything they can to immediately be competitve in the TCG market. I honestly don't know what else a consumer could ask for.

I would like to echo Century's statements:

Please support your local store, if you don't buy there, you might not have a place to play in the future.

[shawn_low]

Time will tell. It's very hard for a new CCG to break into the market successfully. Mystical Empire is trying hard.

Some have the backing of, say, a franchise (LoTR) but dies not long after the franchise loses steam. Other like VS just simply toss lots of money into competitions/tourneys. That is a BIG draw.

So where does The Spoils stand? Is it trying to 'steal' market share from existing gamers or is it trying to CREATE new players?

I think it needs:
1) Big money/draw tournaments.
2) A cohesive card universe (although Decipher has that for a card game recently and that flopped too).
3) Good rules, tournament support.
4) WORLDWIDE marketing and tournaments.
5) Innovative mechanics that aren't too fiddly.

The booster prices MAY give sticker shock. MtG packs are already AU$5.50 or so here in Australia. The Spoils will probably be AU$6.00-6.50 when it comes out. That's pushing things a little.

Hope that The Spoils suceed!

[painted_klown]

The Spoils already has great tournament support and it's only going to get better. I understand everyones concern about it being a new game and the fact that there are several tcg/ccgs that come and go all the time. The thing is though, I do not know of any other game in history that has approached marketing the way TG did. The open beta tournaments are a great idea. That gave the store owners a chance to build a fan base before anybody even had to spend a dime to play! Sure not every retailer across the country immediately jumped into doing these events but that feat would be impossible no matter what the marketing stragety was. Even the local shope here was a little hesitant to run open beta events but with some regular phone calls, visits to the store (gotta get that new scrye anyway:p ) and a little persistance, The Spoils has finally made it here. I urge all of you to please not give up on this game because the open beta tournaments may not have made it your way yet. Go to your local shops and drum up some support. Play the game there with your friends, order some boxes and ask when the shop will start having regular tournaments.;) Good luck to all of you, and with your support The Spoils will still be around in 10 plus years.:D

[who_knew]

Let me start off by saying that I have not had a chance to see the game yet, but am very anxious to give it a try... I just have to disagree that there will be a limited consumer base to start with. I think that there are a LOT of people out there that have quit MTG because they don't have all the cards from the last X number of sets needed to play in tourneys. In this area, people still do some drafting, but constructed play has gone WAY down because of the need to have so many of the now "older" cards in order to be competative. Between people just getting tired of it or deciding to spend their money on poker or whatever, I think there are a good # of people who would like to get in on the ground floor of a new game. They dont have to worry about, "ok I need stuff from the last 3-4 sets too". Many of these people that have quit are adult gamers who actually have the $ to put into a new game, or may be willing to sell off some of their older MTG cards to pay for a new hobby. I do agree that the price of cards is a limiting factor for a lot of the younger gamers and a lower MSRP may help get more of them into the game though.

[Dapuma]

i would add on to who knew's comments by stating this is geared at older gamers

I would fall into the "i quit magic a long time ago" category and miss that style of gameplay, and it is a good time to get in on the ground floor.

[painted_klown]

I also fall into that category, and am an adult. The Spoils is where it's at for all of those in that position..........

[ShuffleAndCut]

Potomac is AWESOME.

I have ordered a TON of stuff from them and they always come through...their shipping is superfast, everything always arrives very well packed, and i have gotten alot of freebies for ordering through them.

I would highly recommend using them to order from.

Not really sure why Scott would say that other than to try to drum up business for himself, Potomac generally has the best prices on the next except for WotC D&D minis

I'm not bashing Potomac - I'm just saying they started preselling a product without any agreements from the manufacturer that they were going to sell the product to them. I know this is true. Now I have no idea if TG is going to come to an agreement with Potomac, and it's really not any of my business. I'm simply saying they are blatently breaking the distribution chain, TG knows about this, and they may or may not do something about it.

I'm not stirring the pot - I'm simply passing along information. Don't gripe to me on release day if this comes to pass - I warned you 1 1/2 months ahead of time.

Scott

[Syrinx]

Basically you're expecting the consumer to pay the same price, for less product, from a company and a game that have yet to prove themselves? Best of luck with that, you're going to need it.

The general opinion in this area is that the game is so similiar to Magic...why even bother? Especially if it costs the same and you get less cards per pack?

[doc8466]

Syrinx,

How many MtG commons do you have lying around? How many of them have seen any play?

Personally, I am a collector before I am a player. My collection is way beyond the bounds of "countable", but I'd guess it's around 500K-600k strong.

I have more commons (20-30-40+ copies of 1000's of different cards) than I could possibly use.

2 less commons per pack is fine with me.

[Zambo]

Basically you're expecting the consumer to pay the same price, for less product, from a company and a game that have yet to prove themselves? Best of luck with that, you're going to need it.

The general opinion in this area is that the game is so similiar to Magic...why even bother? Especially if it costs the same and you get less cards per pack?

Why bother? Here's a half a dozen reasons off the top of my head:

1) There will be different factions with differing abilities; this alone makes it more interesting than Magic.
2) You start with two resources already in play.
3) You can use any card as a resource.
4) You can Mulligan some cards away, keeping the rest. (Hey! No more mana screw!)
5) Generally speaking, you never have "draw-go" moments; you can use extra resources to draw cards, if necessary.
6) Combat is much more interesting than Magic due to the various speeds and how damage is allocated.

That's why people should bother. :)

[kuberr]

i agree with doc on the commons. who really cards about a few less cards, as you can usually find commons on the floor after most drafts.

BUT i also think syrinx is dead on with his comment.

Basically you're expecting the consumer to pay the same price, for less product, from a company and a game that have yet to prove themselves? Best of luck with that, you're going to need it.

take out the for less product part and you have a pretty solid argument. Take a look at the number of people who cant get the product right now. Guess what, the product is FREE! and some people are still having trouble getting their local store to get it in. I love the marketing technique of lets give away cards to get people interested, but are we supposed to believe that store owners would rather invest money to stock the game than send TG an email to get free product?

I really hope this game takes off, as I have had alot of fun playing it and i think its an excellent game. I just really wish they could have at least started the game with a lower price point, and then if there is demand raised it up later. It is my opinion that this game will not survive very long at $4/pack. hopefully im wrong.

gl hf

[Voltergeist]

When starting a new game pricing is usually my biggest concern. Even though most (if not all) of the major CCGs are hovering around $4 or $4+ doesn't mean a relative unknown can come out and demand the same price. Even CCGs with a franchise behind them have had difficulties.

Although ground floor always has a strong appeal, there are so many CCGs that never made it and, in many cases, it becomes a waste. There have been CCGs where I was paying $3 or $3.50 and then kicking myself a year later when boosters became avaiable for $.50 or a $1.00 after things fell through.

[jedibcg]

I think we all can agree that we would love for the cards to be very inexpensive (if not free forever) but this will not be the case (cannot be the case if TG is going to run a business). The question is though (ask yourselves) are you not going to buy because it is $4 (MSR) instead of $3 (MSR) per pack. I think most of us are going to buy (we may not buy as many packs) but I don't the dollar is going to deciding factor in this game. Same as the 2 less common cards. VS. System has 14 per pack, Yu-gi-oh has what 9? Anyway that again is my two cents worth. Pay up now suckers...lol j/k

[EndangeredMassa]

MSRP is $4.00 a pack. I am being competative in my sales online at $2.79.

Oh, cool stuff.

[Voltergeist]

I think we all can agree that we would love for the cards to be very inexpensive (if not free forever) but this will not be the case (cannot be the case if TG is going to run a business). The question is though (ask yourselves) are you not going to buy because it is $4 (MSR) instead of $3 (MSR) per pack. I think most of us are going to buy (we may not buy as many packs) but I don't the dollar is going to deciding factor in this game. Same as the 2 less common cards. VS. System has 14 per pack, Yu-gi-oh has what 9? Anyway that again is my two cents worth. Pay up now suckers...lol j/k

VS is franchised, YGO is heavily promoted through secondary media. Spoils has neither advantage. Nor is this really just about price, it's specifically about starting price >_>

[babyface]

Hmmm, let's compare to other top products out there in the industry and see how they measure up

YU-gi-oh - 9 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
Naruto - 10 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
VS Systems - 14 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
MTG- 15 cards per pack - $3.99
Pokemon - 14 cards per pack - $3.99 (or soon to be)
Sigh, I can list several CCG/TCG's that have different card distributions and have an MSRP of $3.99, yet that doesn't stop them from being sucessful.


EDIT: I should've read the thread completely before commenting, I see others have made similar arguements.

[xyklops]

To be honest, I just recently found out about this game, and am very interested. Quite possibly I would be attending the tournament in Orlando. My two cents are right now, why not? The one thing about this game that attracted me was that a lot of input from TCG Gamers was taken into consideration at the design table, so I think that this is something that gamers can call "their own". Time will ultimately tell what will be successful, so how about if you think you can get behind this game and support it, then do so, otherwise just do your own thing. No need to be negative and already start digging the gravesite just yet.

In addition, I too fit the adult gamer model, although I never played Magic, I remember when it first came out, and I looked at the game like "Hmm? That doesn't look very interesting . . ." LOL Boy was I wrong! Actually I play Yugioh, and the reason I am very interested in the Spoils is:

1) Prize support. YGO has nothing in terms of cold hard cash. Yay a laptop and a promo card if you beat like 400+ duelists, and let's not start about the luck factor inherent to the game of YGO

2) Ground Floor Participation. One of the things I can say I regret, is when friends and fellow duelists start talking about Chaos Emperor Dragon and Yata and BEWD and La-Jinn, and back in the days with Beatdown and Control, etc etc. Since I started playing about a month before the creation of the split ban lists (Advanced vs Traditional), I really never played any of those cards, or in any of those times, so I missed out. With this game, there isn't a set that I have to purchase, I can start from the beginning and say "I was here when it started"

3) Game Design. I have yet to play, but from what I understand, this game seems very intriguing to play, and appears to be more strategic than games that I am used to. Being a control player, I like to think my moves out, and set up win conditions. This game seems to be all about that.

That's all I have. THanks for having me on this board, I hope to be able to contribute useful things soon :)

PS -- 1st Post :)

[SubtleThunder]

I would look here (http://www.thespoils.com/spoils/showthread.php?t=551) for some brief info now, and a ton of info in a couple weeks.

[Zambo]

Y'know, ST...that ain't even right. You're such a tease. :p


I would look here (http://www.thespoils.com/spoils/showthread.php?t=551) for some brief info now, and a ton of info in a couple weeks.

[ShuffleAndCut]

Hmmm, let's compare to other top products out there in the industry and see how they measure up

YU-gi-oh - 9 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
Naruto - 10 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
VS Systems - 14 cards per pack - $3.99 MSRP
MTG- 15 cards per pack - $3.99
Pokemon - 14 cards per pack - $3.99 (or soon to be)
Sigh, I can list several CCG/TCG's that have different card distributions and have an MSRP of $3.99, yet that doesn't stop them from being sucessful.


EDIT: I should've read the thread completely before commenting, I see others have made similar arguements.

Vs and Yu-Gi-Oh do not have MSRPs - no UDE product does. It is just widely regarded as them being $3.99 a pack based on manufacturer cost. Most people just don't try to sell them for more han that. Naruto is above MSRP right now - I sell out everything I get my hands on at $4.49 and really should be $4.99. Pokemon's MSRP is $3.49. Point generally taken - almost every game is at least $3.49 now with a lot being $3.99.

Scott

[babyface]

You are correct in stating that UDE doesn't have a published MSRP; however, their business practices (direct accounts) do dictate and indicate the price. If a retailer has a direct account with UDE, they can calculate the SRP, by the discount level on almost all (if not all) products.

[EndangeredMassa]

I realize that $4.00 is close to a standard now-a-days, but it still sounds like a lot of money for a single pack.

Regardless, I'll still buy a ton of it. (That's all that matters, I suppose.)

[doc8466]

With all the talk about the importance of price per pack, how price per box?
This has been discussed in another thread, concerning the fact that TG is making 13 pack booster boxes.
Being able to drop $35-40 on a box of 13 makes them roughly $3 per pack.
Granted not everyone has that to spend at one time, but doesn't that mitigate the price per pack issue a bit?

[EndangeredMassa]

I think it does. I've bought boxes of card games in the past. I would usually use them in limited events where people either bought the packs off of me or I just used them myself (instead of buying packs off of someone else).

Also, if you have a friend or three, you could always split a box. (That is, if you play a game of The Spoils to determine who gets the extra pack.)

[jedibcg]

I think the 13 packs a box is great for this reason. Four man draft (three packs it has already been stated is all it will take) and you already have a prize pack.

[KohanimTCG]

I really like this game, but $4 per pack for a brand new game is high. As many people have said, people won't trust it to succeed, and will be concerned the cards may become worthless quickly.

However, it is possible that the packs may end up priced much less than the MSRP. In my area, VS System cards are $3 a pack, and that's a major reason they became popular (aside from the support of being based on comicbook characters that they already had).

[Taiga_yuri]

There is two separate paths the cards could take.
1) No one buys any cause they are $4 a pack. Cards are worth less. Game dies.
2) People buy packs cause the game is great! Cards gain in value, and start showing up on popular on line sites example, Ebay, Shuffle and Cut, and so on. Game grows to be the best TCG ever made.

Now which of these do you think is more believable? An this is just my opionyon...

Lets see people all over the world have been introduced to this game. TG has been giving the cards away free! Yet they seem to sell on popular sites all ready. So cards people can all ready get for free people are paying for. I personally will buy cards, you see cause I don't want to be that person several months from now going wow I screwed up and now have to pay top dollar for that "insert really good card from any game here". How many people wish they bought a pack of Alpha when everyone said "Card games aren't good."
Yes its true bad games fail and you lose money on things you bought. However if you have even sat down and played this game you should know its a great game and it will succeed.
Once again just my thoughts.

[IprodigyI]

Cards are already for sale on Shuffle and Cut as well as a few other sites. You can also pick up Open Beta booster boxes on Ebay. So I think the game is already expected to do very well, not to mention how many top card game players have already expressed interest at GenCon by playing in the tournaments there. With the prize suppot that TGI is putting in already I think that the price per pack is going to be less of a weak point since The Spoils is supposed to be built more towards tournament play then hobby and collection such as Magic or VS.

[Great White Nothing]

1) No one buys any cause they are $4 a pack. Cards are worth less. Game dies.


Since Magic the Gathering and Yugioh both sell their packs at this price, considering both games have lead the industry at one point or another and still have notable sized fanbases, I really doubt too many people are going to scoff at 4 dollars a pack.

[Jack Daniels]

it would be nice if say this game was 1$ cheeper but i don't see it going away any time soon cause it's $4 or 13 to a box

[LucienofShadow]

Now what I think they should do is to keep giving cards away for free. I don't think anyone would complain... the price is fine. If my local stores actually stick to it instead of tacking on 99c more I will be amazed.

[Great White Nothing]

If they continue distribution for free they don't make any money...

[IprodigyI]

If they continue distribution for free they don't make any money...

and therefore the game will die, and none of us want that.

[Century]

it would be nice if say this game was 1$ cheeper but i don't see it going away any time soon cause it's $4 or 13 to a box

I've now been told it's 12 booster packs per box. 10 packs in a Competition Pack box.

[IprodigyI]

I've now been told it's 12 booster packs per box. 10 packs in a Competition Pack box.

Go check Shuffle and Cut they have Spoils on pre-order and they have all the info there. They say 13 packs per box.

[Great White Nothing]

Hey what's the retail price on these 12 pack boxes? If it's under 20 I may buy these en bulk.

[turning_of_the_tide]

I don't like the 4.00 a pack but I will support my local store as I alone was able to convince him to buy a large quanitity of boxes. (the fact that thjis game has more support in my local area then MTG since I have been promoting it doesn't hurt either.)

-Ryan

[seventh sage]

Go check Shuffle and Cut they have Spoils on pre-order and they have all the info there. They say 13 packs per box.
They have boosters listed at $2.79 each. Sounds good to me.

[Jack Daniels]

at launch it's 13 packs at 4 bucks a pop per pack. but get them pre ordered now if you can

[Century]

at launch it's 13 packs at 4 bucks a pop per pack. but get them pre ordered now if you can

Trust me. It's 12 packs per box. I received the information from someone at TGI earlier this week, and confirmed it. They switched to 12 packs per box.

[Epock]

If someone likes a game enough, they will play it, .30 increase be damned. The hard part will be simple convincing people to PLAY a new game. Most people that play ccgs (At least around here) are set in their ways.

But anyhow, the price shouldn't be a huge problem. If Wizards can get away with selling Dreamblade for 15 bucks a booster (granted, its a miniature game, but still), Tenacious should be fine with $4.

[Jack Daniels]

Trust me. It's 12 packs per box. I received the information from someone at TGI earlier this week, and confirmed it. They switched to 12 packs per box.
wow thats kinda ghey. with 13 there was a reason to have a couple friends buy in to win the extra pack....

[fake.talent]

Well this means pre-order prices will go down by one pack maybe which would allow me to pre-order two boxes lol.

[EndangeredMassa]

wow thats kinda ghey. with 13 there was a reason to have a couple friends buy in to win the extra pack....
And, with 12 packs per box there's an easy way to split the packs for tournaments and the like.

12 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6.
13 is divisible by... 1 and 13, which is useless. Yay for prime numbers.

If you only need 3 packs (of 13 cards) for limited events post-release, then two boxes could easily serve an 8-person event.

[Jack Daniels]

what i was saying was draft plays with friends you could say 12 is fair game so thats 3 friends with 4 packs and one as a winning prise is all.

[Jack Daniels]

Well this means pre-order prices will go down by one pack maybe which would allow me to pre-order two boxes lol.
i'm in the process of pre-ordering 3 boxes lol

[EndangeredMassa]

Yeah. The extra pack could be used that way. (And, that's what I would do in that situation.)

However, I think that it makes much more sense (overall) to package the boxes with 12 packs instead of 13.

[doc8466]

I'd like to know if the pre-order prices will change at all.

Can anyone (ShuffleandCut reading here???) speak to that?

[IprodigyI]

It probably wont change, I know several people that have already pre-ordered boxes, and be realistic, $34.99 a box is still a great deal even if it is only 12 packs per box. That makes them a little under $3 a pack which is $1 less then the quoted MSRP. So no one should really complain about Suffle and Cut's prices, and no one has yet.

[doc8466]

It probably wont change, I know several people that have already pre-ordered boxes, and be realistic, $34.99 a box is still a great deal even if it is only 12 packs per box. That makes them a little under $3 a pack which is $1 less then the quoted MSRP. So no one should really complain about Suffle and Cut's prices, and no one has yet.

I agree completely, it's still a good deal. I'm just curious if the price will/has/might be changed from what the distributors are paying since they buy by the case, they're missing out on about 1 - 2 boxes from that case depending on the number of boxes in a case. I'd say that matters.

And I only mentioned Scott because he's the only distributor I know of on these boards, not to in any way make comment on his prices.

[IprodigyI]

I agree completely, it's still a good deal. I'm just curious if the price will/has/might be changed from what the distributors are paying since they buy by the case, they're missing out on about 1 - 2 boxes from that case depending on the number of boxes in a case. I'd say that matters.

And I only mentioned Scott because he's the only distributor I know of on these boards, not to in any way make comment on his prices.

I know you werent, I just wanted to state that fact for anyone that might complain about them. Some one always does lol

[jedibcg]

I don't complain about his prices just him in general....j/k. It is a very valid question in my opinion. Box prices were based on the assumation of 13 cards per pack with 12 the assumation is incorrect seems to need to be reworked. Whether it will or not we will have to wait and see I guess.

[Century]

Vs and Yu-Gi-Oh do not have MSRPs - no UDE product does.

Go to the UDE.com store and look, all their items have an SRP. It's on the manufacturer's page... that makes it the Manufacturer's SRP, so they have an MSRP as much as they would like to deny it.