New Machine / New Mechanics

[Brad Meine]

Part II brought us some interesting new card mechanics. There was the addition of a couple of sac-engines, an army of new anti-token based banker characters, cards that return resources to their owner's hands, and characters that cannot be picked by your opponent.

What do you guys hope to see in future sets? Specifically Seed?
Maybe another good question is which mechanics you would not like to see? (the popular argument being *NO resource removal*) Anything else?

---

I wouldn't mind seeing 'remove from the game' removal tactics. Also, I love cards with mechanics like Stuffy Doll (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGTIM/stuffy_doll.jpg) and Souls of the Faultless (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGGUI/souls_of_the_faultless.jpg).
Which also brings up the question: Are 'non-color' and/or 'multi-color' cards the future of Spoils?

[CodyD1024]

I think resource destruction would make this game unplayable.

THe two resource start was a way to allow people to play two different colors, and to have a quick start unlike that other game.

IF one was to add in resource removal, you would almost always have to play two factions in your deck, instead of the one, unless you like only playing with half your deck.

[sdesiano]

i think multi thres cards would be great for the game. kind of like the gold cards from magic.

[Fishman]

I don't see an immediate benefit to having multi-trade cards. Sure, gold cards are fun in Magic. Part of their coolness comes from their novelty. When Legends was released they were new and different. But it wasn't until how many sets later, Ravnica, where they were actually worth playing. Ravnica block changed magic from 5 colors to 10, well, factions, and opened up many options in deck construction.

In The Spoils, it's already easy to run 2-3 trades, even 5 aren't out of the question with proper threshold management. To me, it seems multi-trade cards would just make deck decisions for you. Also, each trade in the spoils feels like you're already playing a multi-color deck when viewed from a magic perspective. If/when multi-trade cards appear, I hope it doesn't happen right away, maybe the expansion after Seed Cycle? There are still so many options with what we have now.

That said, off-trade abilities might be a way to do multi-color characters effectively/interestingly. Example: (not remotely balanced for power levels)
Quotidian Strategist / who let him on the battlefield?
9 cost, 2 arcanist icons.
1, 3, 1
Voidal Strike
cost - X is the number of rage resources you control. Deplete this character, Pick a character.
effect - Deal X damage to the character.

[FromTheShadows]

Fishman, do u really know what you are talking about with gold cards being unplayable until Ravnica. Um, Mystic Snake, Vindicate, PSYCHATOG (!!!ONEONEone1) Spiritmonger, Pernicious Deed... do i really need to go on? The idea behind gold or multi trade cards is to get things in a color you don't often see. As soon as you start printing off color abilities, it makes trades pretty unbalanced, and you lose the need to splash other trades. I think thresh with different trades is a good idea. Like a rage arcanist or rage deception that has covert since there isnt a real easy way for rage to deal with covert. Also i would like ot see another pluck character to build off of costume change, something along the lines of Gilded drake or the morph mechanic from magic. I dunno, something along those lines. The game is far to early in its life span to be doing off color abilities.

[Sabash]

I think thresh with different trades is a good idea. Like a rage arcanist or rage deception that has covert since there isnt a real easy way for rage to deal with covert.

And for good reason! If every trade could deal with every problem in isolation, there would be no reason to use other trades at all. And besides, what's the point in having a mixed Warlord/Arcanist card for covert anyway? If you're playing Arcanist you have plenty of choices of covert cards to add.

[Exemplar]

I don't think I'd like to see resource destruction in this game. One reason I think The Spoils rocks is 'coz the chances of losing just because you didn't draw that one piece of resource is gone. Putting in resource destruction would just ruin the fun.

Gold cards would be ok. They would make you think about starting the game with 2 resource of the same trade.

Another idea I have is abilities that require threshold. You wouldn't need to deplete them in order to use the ability, but you'll need it in play. It would make it interesting since you could still use the character even without wanting to use its ability. :)

[Fishman]

PSYCHATOG

Ok, you got me there. I wasn't thinking straight.

Still, I think there are many other options to explore before jumping right into two trade cards. With the ease of running multiple trades, there doesn't seem to be a pressing reason for it.

[Phlyinice]

Another idea I have is abilities that require threshold. You wouldn't need to deplete them in order to use the ability, but you'll need it in play. It would make it interesting since you could still use the character even without wanting to use its ability. :)

That's a pretty sweet idea. I could see some cool stuff coming out of that one. Like, a 2/1/3 for 3 and 1 threshold with some cool ability after you hit three threshold.

Bumbling Researcher
2/1/3
Cost: 3; 1 Threshold

When you reach four threshold of Obsession, return the top tactic from your discard to your hand. If you already have 4 threshold Obsession when you play Bumbling Researcher, use this ability when this card enters play instead.

[J Caster]

---

I wouldn't mind seeing 'remove from the game' removal tactics. Also, I love cards with mechanics like Stuffy Doll (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGTIM/stuffy_doll.jpg) and Souls of the Faultless (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGGUI/souls_of_the_faultless.jpg).
Which also brings up the question: Are 'non-color' and/or 'multi-color' cards the future of Spoils?



Apparently, the page you were looking for was not found at StarCityGames.com. Though we try hard to make sure that all of our pages are up to date, some URLs have changed:

[JayDubbs]

The one thing that I hope that we do not see is an unconditional board sweeper that does not cost less than downsizing. The main way to win in this game is with attacking characters and a cheap reset button would slow the game down to a grind halt.

As for what I would like to see, a cycle of wrestlers to head to head with the fighters in Warlord.:D

[Hordak]

Something to think about for the future would be tradeless cards. Shadowfist had a mechanic that I thought was clever to limit the usefulness of 'colorless' cards. Have a requirement of 4 (arbitrary) threshold in ANY trade to play the card.

[kcfin]

I would personally like to see some form of resource destruction. With a form of resource destruction it will force constructed to become a true test of a players ability to be aware of the metagame and adapt to that. It also makes players build differently and test them as a deckbuilder rather than just build this trade with a starting splash, which is pretty much what everyone does. I think resource destruction would spice up constructed to be a true test of a player's abilities. Plus as the game is now we only have the one faction, but once that changes there are different options to start with that will affect the way deck building is done anyway, so I don't think it would be that far off to introduce resource destruction.

I also remember them stating that special non-staple resources will be made and those will affect the game quite a bit so there should probably be a way to deal with those as well, so I personally think that it would be a good thing.

The only other thing I would like to see created is alternate win conditions to spice stuff up. Something like if you have these 4 specific things in play you win, but have drawbacks. Or maybe influence control like a tactic that has if you and your opponent both have 11 influence you win the game.

I just feel the constructed format is a bit lacking in variety it is basically 1 of 3 deck types and that there should be things done to spice that up and create a more varied field so that you don't go to a tournament and play off shoots of the same deck in 5 of 8 rounds or something like that. Frankly I get sick of playing the same types of deck over and over and over all the time. There was one constructed tournament were out of the 11 people entered 10 were playing the almost exact same stall decks of obsession/deception with only like 8 chars in the deck and just relied on stealing everything else, so that was a fun tournament in which nothing got accomplished ever.

[Hordak]

Resource destruction should be HIGHLY limited if it were introduced. Specifically it should be very costly in one way or another. There's nothing less fun than a land destruction deck.

As for alternate win conditions I think the new faction cards should contain them and here's why: It gives a player the ability to feint with his/her deck. If I have 2 ways to win, and am able to obfuscate which method I'm actually going for until the critical moment it could make for a much more interesting constructed universe. If that secondary method is contained in the text of a card that I need to play...well, getting screwed on the draw sucks.

[FromTheShadows]

alright hold up here. It seems to me that EVERYONE save one or two i have seen, are equating Resources as being the same as lands in magic. Well they aren't. What made land destruction so powerful was that you could only play one land a turn, and only play lands as lands (duh). Well in spoils, u can play any card face down as a 'land' since we are so fond of that comparison, and you can pay 4 (right now) at any time to play a land, which you couldn't do in magic. The worst i can see happening is that it screws up your threshold a little, which just makes splashing iwth a starting two a little harder. Also it was hard ot get ot more lands in magic with the one card draw a turn, not so in spoils. You can pay 3 to draw a card, which could be a 'land' at any time. So enough with being so afraid of land destruction being so bad. IT isn't that dominant of a deck in magic, with all its draw backs, so why should it be in spoils. As for deck variance, well its hard to build a lot of tournament worthy decks out of 2 sets. At this point in magic's career, it was all about who could win on turn one by playing time walks or w/e and taking 5 or more turns before your opponent could. Just give it time and don't be afraid of resource destruction.

Oh wait, i almost forgot, Doc, i didn't drop and eff bomb, even though, since this is a pg 13 game i should be allowed one in every thread, just like one eff bomb in every pg 13 movie.

[J Caster]

The worst i can see happening is that it screws up your threshold a little,

I don't think you fully appreciate the impact this would have on the game.

[taintedzodiac]

IT isn't that dominant of a deck in magic, with all its draw backs, so why should it be in spoils.

Land destruction was a very, very powerful deck in Magic just before the Black Summer.

[Hordak]

Yeah...I think you pointed out exactly why it's so powerful in The Spoils (perhaps even more so than Magic). Once you get the advantage by destroying even a single resource you should keep that advantage for the rest of the game because your opponent would have to spend 4 resources to catch back up to you every time you destroyed a resource. Also, threshhold is a very important mechanic when building decks so it would throw off every deck ever built on the off chance that the opponent is packing some resource destruction. That would make it the most powerful effect in the game.

[FromTheShadows]

Maybe im just not seeing it. Maybe its just because i play sealed way more than i play constructed. Maybe everyone has just gotten comfortable with only having to run the starting 2 of another trade and gotten lazy and comfortable. I still don't think resource destruction is that big of a deal. If it would help you guys maybe it should be double sided, like each player sacrifices a resource, or something along those line. And along the liens of LD being the dominant deck, no it wasn't. Not in type 2, dragon storm has been the dominant deck for some time, closely followed by Solar Flare, and BUG, or UG aggro was behind that, with 'vore being middle of the pack. In fact, as soon as Ravnica was printed 'vore lost a ton of power because of spell snare, so that is neither here nor there. But back to topic, if you are scared of resource destruction its because you don't really want ot have to adapt your playing style. Most importantly i mean you want to only have to play the starting two of your splashed trade, or something along those lines, and if thats so, that isn't tenacious' fault. Hell, the next faction might not even have the ability of starting 2 in play. I still really don't see it as that big of a deal.

[Hordak]

That's part of the point of the game...having a choice of the two staples you start with is one of the many things that separates this from Magic. It isn't laziness on anyone's part, it's game design.

Ninja Edit: Also, it has nothing to do with adapting playstyle. That would be the case if this game used a sideboard. One has to utilize all of their card slots effectively to compete in constructed and packing extra, superfluous staples because there might be resource destruction would be bad design. It forces people to make choices regardless of what their opponent plays because of 1 particular card type that their opponent MIGHT be playing.

[J Caster]

Maybe im just not seeing it. Maybe its just because i play sealed way more than i play constructed.

Resource destruction would have MUCH MORE devastating effect in sealed and draft than in constructed.

[Hordak]

Lol, yeah. Just think, you draft or put your sealed deck together and possibly need to splash a third trade albeit with 1 threshhold. Well, you'd be a fool not to just start with 1 of that staple in play...but wait! Someone, by luck, can destroy that staple giving you several unplayable cards.

[caveboybc]

Land destruction has been done and done, in the world of The Spoils it seems that resources are valued highly and any reasonable Lord would surely try and utilize unguarded resources instead of destroying them. The Underground Pudding Baron might be able to attach their opponents' resources to their own faction for a turn thus causing a temporary threshold dilemma. Mayhaps resources will soon be targets for attacks where blockers would rally to defend and keep their resorces unattached. Better to pilfer than purge eh?

[Hordak]

A mechanic that I never want to see EVER (well two mechanics): Anything resembling Stasis, or any extra turns.

[Century]

And along the liens of LD being the dominant deck, no it wasn't.

He's referring to right before Black Summer, that was 1999, IIRC. LD was HUGE at that time.

[kcfin]

Well if you guys don't want to see resource destruction what if TG decides to make a faction that lets you and your opponent each pick the starting resources for each other. I have to agree that players have gotten too lazy with construction and rely too much on what they start with I like my games to be varying and a challenge where someone who truly understands all aspects of the game can thrive in the meta, not a who can draw what cards by basically playing the same decks.

From everything I've seen within constructed tournaments its almost always the same story and predictably boring and there is little to meta against those decks at the moment so its not that easy to try to find something to deal with the meta. There are some things that can be done to mess with various decks such as character destruction against a sproingmajig deck, but against control decks its harder to find a way against that type of stuff.

It may just be me but the constructed format is nothing worth playing right now, I currently prefer limited as it takes a whole lot better of a player to be successful there with deck building and draft is especially more difficult in having to judge situations. With constructed its basically matchups only right now and takes much more luck than skill.

[Century]

the constructed format is nothing worth playing right now

That's because there has not been enough focus on Constructed at this point. There currently is no established meta game and it might take a while to get one.


With constructed its basically matchups only right now and takes much more luck than skill.

If you playtested Constructed as much as The Knitting Coalition has, you would change your opinion. There is a lot more to playing constructed than most decks would leave you to believe.

[Hordak]

If you playtested Constructed as much as The Knitting Coalition has, you would change your opinion. There is a lot more to playing constructed than most decks would leave you to believe.

That's assuming The Knitting Coalition exists, which it doesn't.

I have more to say, but I'd need time to forumlate it into a cohesive post...maybe later.

[Century]

That's assuming The Knitting Coalition exists, which it doesn't.

I have more to say, but I'd need time to forumlate it into a cohesive post...maybe later.

I was referring to my team. We exist, but only on the 6th Flatday of each Week.

[joshlytle]

He's referring to right before Black Summer, that was 1999, IIRC. LD was HUGE at that time.

I don't mean to be ruffling feathers, but since I'm an old school Magic player I can offer a few points.

-The Black Summer was in 1996.

-Land destruction with Sinkhole, Strip Mine, Stone Rain, Ice Storm, and Moxes & Birds of Paradise, with Black Vises was popular before 1996.

-There have only ever been a few tournament worthy LD decks through Magic's history including Legion Land Loss (a mono-green Extended deck from the late 90s), Ponza & Sped Red (both mono red decks relying on some fatties and a lot of Stone Rain type cards), and lately Magnivore decks (Blue/Red deck with lots of LD and bouce for lands and Magnivore to finish the game)

-During this past years Constructed team PTQ season the Magnivore deck was actually the best deck by a small margin.

-I personally have always hated LD decks. The main reason is that they are inconsistently good. When they work, they do so by making your opponent unable to play any cards. To me, that's not very fun. The problem is, when they are working they lead to a non-interactive game state, and when they aren't working they are just annoying and lead to unhappy players.

-You won't be seeing resource destruction any time soon in The Spoils. However, I agree it's good when players are encouraged to do more than just splash 2 icons in one trade. I wonder if Seed will provide some mechanics that encourage that....but in the end variety will come from your local players themselves.

-We'll keep trying to make as many different decks viable as possible, but if you want to see more variety in your local metagame then I encourage you to set an example and build a new killer deck yourself! If you start beating people with it, they'll have to adjust.

Josh Lytle

[bic]

Josh, stop trying to get us to use your crazzzzzzzy tech. :p
Actually, go ahead and PM all those secrets ;) .

[Century]

if you want to see more variety in your local metagame then I encourage you to set an example and build a new killer deck yourself! If you start beating people with it, they'll have to adjust.

We have done the new deck thing, but are waiting till a decent sized event to spring it on them. BWAHAHAHA!

I sent you a decklist though ;o)

[joshlytle]

Josh, stop trying to get us to use your crazzzzzzzy tech. :p
Actually, go ahead and PM all those secrets ;) .

I have no secrets. None at all. And stuff. :rolleyes:

But seriously I just wanted everyone to know we're trying to do our part to make The Spoils fun in Constructed. And I wanted to show my mad knowledge of Magic history...since I was there for it all...lol

me = getting old

Josh Lytle

[LucienofShadow]

I was old once... bloody reincarnation.

Let's see, what mechanics could allow that to happen? Turning resources face down is too close to resource destruction for my comfort, unless there is a way to turn them back up again provided within the ability. Example:

Cost X Threshold X
Item
Pick a staple resource your opponent controls. Flip that resource face down.

Cost: Discard 2 cards. This ability may only be used by your opponent.
Effect: Flip the resource turned face down by this card's effect back up. Destroy this card.

[Phlyinice]

I was old once... bloody reincarnation.

Let's see, what mechanics could allow that to happen? Turning resources face down is too close to resource destruction for my comfort, unless there is a way to turn them back up again provided within the ability. Example:

Cost X Threshold X
Item
Pick a staple resource your opponent controls. Flip that resource face down.

Cost: Discard 2 cards. This ability may only be used by your opponent.
Effect: Flip the resource turned face down by this card's effect back up. Destroy this card.

Not a bad idea for balancing a means of resource/threshold/icon removal without destroying one of the prime concepts of the game. I just worry that the ability that pretty much says 'Your opponent discards 2 cards from his hand' would be pretty expensive. Albeit, your opponent can refuse to respond, but should your deck be running Blow Up, Precise Sabotage, Hammer Smash, etc etc, this could be disgusting. It sounds like an Arcanist card, so having Forget already within the trade is dangerous. Perhaps something more like (kinda like a finger trap, but for resources):

Disconcerting Conversation Piece
Do we really have to talk about that in front of the... um... what is it again?
Cost: 5
Threshold: AA
When this card enters play, turn one of your opponent's resources face down.
When this card leaves play, turn that resource face up.

Cost: Discard 2 cards. (Your opponent may use this ability)
Effect: Destroy this card.


The title is a direct reference to the newest entry in the "Web Blarg!".

The "When enters play:, when leaves play:" ability fits in well with the Arcanist trade. So does the very control-ish element behind the card. As well as the discard effect. Its perfect for Arcanists. Thus we need a signature kind of item to illustrate it...

It would also be cool if the cost was more like: "You choose and discard a card from your hand. Your opponent chooses and discards a card from your hand." while bumping up the cost to 6, or the threshold to 3.

[taintedzodiac]

Example:

Cost X Threshold X
Item
Pick a staple resource your opponent controls. Flip that resource face down.

Cost: Discard 2 cards. This ability may only be used by your opponent.
Effect: Flip the resource turned face down by this card's effect back up. Destroy this card.

I don't think that any card that targets a specific staple resource while leaving it in play face-down is feasible in this game. With how resources are moved around and bunched up, it would be nigh impossible to remember which face-down resource was initially picked.

Interesting ideas, though, Phlyinice's included.

[Hordak]

Arcanist already has a little bit of resource control for their own resources so it would stand to reason that they're the most likely trade to get resource control over others...

That said, it would completely pigeon-hole them into the control realm because they would have every form of control available to them.

Edit:

How about something like this?

Poisoned by the Void
Name an object...Ear poison!
6AAA
Cost: Pick a Staple Resource and a face-down Resource your opponent controls.
Effect: Turn the face-down Resource face up and your opponent may play that card for free (they must still meet the threshhold). Flip the Staple Resource face-down.
Uh...what?


It sounds fun, risky, and weird...all the Arcanist needs.

Another possible concept:

Obtuse Muddler
I'm gonna confuse you!
5AA
2/1/3
COVERT
When this card inflicts damage to a faction, pick a Staple Resource that you do not control and one that you do. Trade control of those Staple Resources.


I don't know why, but these resource tricks are fun to think of

What the...
Pluck?
4AAAA
Cost: Pick a face-down Resource your opponent controls and you opponent picks a face-down Resource you control. Effect: Reveal both cards. If the numeric cost of your opponent's card is equal to or greater than yours exhange cards and you may both play those cards for free, ignoring threshhold. Any card not played in this way is returned to its owner's hand.

^Edited for clarity.


It might be fun to change what a staple is.

-GreedIsGood
Say it with me now, Evil is good
6GG
ITEM
Any resource with a token on it is considered to be a Greed Staple Resource instead of its normal type.
Corrupted by Wealth
Cost: Pay 3. Pick a Staple Resource you control and a Staple Resource your opponent controls.
Effect: Put a token on each Resource.
Retirement
Either player may use this ability.
Cost: Pay 4. Pick a Staple Resource you control and a Staple Resource your opponent controls.
Effect: Remove all tokens from both resources.



Squatter Infestation
Is that my bathrobe?
8RRRRR
All resources attached to both factions change controllers.

Squandered Opportunities
You shoulda thought that sooner.
8RRRRR
All resources that are not attached to a faction change controllers.


1337 73ch 5y/\/\p05!u/\/\
3EEE
You may search your opponent's deck for up to 2 Staple Resources and put them into play under your control. Your opponent may search your deck for a Staple Resource and put it into play under their control.

[CodyD1024]

I think both the Obtuse muddler, and that last one are way too strong.

The muddler can be broken, if I choose to play mono obsession, sure Ill give them one of my obsession, but Ill tkae one of their splash icons, and I can do it again next turn!

The last card you listed is awesome, two resources for a 3 cost? I don't care if they are your color or not, having 2 more resources first turn would jsut be....EWWWW

[Hordak]

Costs and what-not are arbitrary, but they're all ideas that involve resource manipulation.

[JayDubbs]

I was referring to my team. We exist, but only on the 6th Flatday of each Week.

When is the sixth Flatday of the week? I need to know when it is so that I know when I am a team member for reals and when I am just pretending to be one.

[Century]

When is the sixth Flatday of the week? I need to know when it is so that I know when I am a team member for reals and when I am just pretending to be one.

It's the one right after Banana.

[Phlyinice]

I don't think that any card that targets a specific staple resource while leaving it in play face-down is feasible in this game. With how resources are moved around and bunched up, it would be nigh impossible to remember which face-down resource was initially picked.

Interesting ideas, though, Phlyinice's included.

Well, it's not so hard. When you pick the resource, you're targeting it specifically for a reason. And you'll definitely remember what you picked when your goal is to hose someone by limited the icons they produce of a specific faction they control. Plus, it was a face-up resource that's now face down. Unless you're playing tricksy games about playing resources from your hand face down, then it's not going to help at all. Even in that case, you really only need to flip up one resource that produces the same icon of the resource turned face-down. It's not that hard to remember any of that.

[mockingbird]

I think that if there is going to be any kind of colorless card, then it will probably have a threshold of face down cards (or maybe even "non-staple" resources) rather than staple resources. This will enable them to be played in any deck but also keep a balance between threshholds.

This is a little more balanced than a threshhold of any icons because it still puts a limitation on compatabiliy.

[waiya]

how about this

Ambiguity Shichiner
2 OOOO
Item
Shift
cost: pick a face down resource your opponent controls. destroy this item.

effect: remove opponents resource from the game you may play this card as though it was in your hand (ignoring threshold req.)

cost: pick a face down resource you control. destroy this card.

effect: remove it from the game. your opponent may play that card as though it was in their hand ignoring threshold req. search your deck for a staple resource and put it into play.

[La_Sin_Grail]

And for good reason! If every trade could deal with every problem in isolation, there would be no reason to use other trades at all. And besides, what's the point in having a mixed Warlord/Arcanist card for covert anyway? If you're playing Arcanist you have plenty of choices of covert cards to add.

It's like in MTG, black can't kill enchantments. In Spoils, rage can't kill coverts well. However, you're forgetting that shriever attacks kill EVERYTHING well, including coverts. If that isn't enough, add flaming bardeuse.

[turning_of_the_tide]

I think that if there is going to be any kind of colorless card, then it will probably have a threshold of face down cards.

Best Idea I have heard throughout this thread plain and simple, amazing, has a great feel and fuels cards like Land Shark and such to a higher level of playability. Great idea mockingbird.

-Ryan:spade:

[CodyD1024]

That would make for some interesting decks, or at least ones with barley any actual staple resources...wow...that is a good idea... What would be an example of a card though? somethings that every trade dabbles in? Or would they be all new types of cards, kind of like a new trade?

[infidel07]

not a fan of land destruction, wouldnt mind seeing some more 4 speed rage characters with effects like "if this character deals damage to opponents faction deal one damage to all of opponents characters." some thing like that to make the make target practices shrievers and bardeuse a little bit better (not that they need it)

[imahastysarcophyle]

I DEFINITELY want to see new factions in this set. especially factions that are good with specific trades. can't wait for new number of starting resources and starting influence.

[johnny]

I would like to see time travel possible at some point. I'm sure the next year's worth of cards, if not more are already completed, tested and ready to roll out.

If the Seed Cycle is supposed to take place 150 years before 1st Edition, it would be really cool to have cards that only exist in another time "dimension" Items/tactics could "warp" to other zones to attack or block somehow.

I guess it wouldn't be much different than covert but more like another functionality LIKE covert, but called something else.. - but might be an additional element of complexity to consider. Imagine stacking an alter time dimension/covert that could only be blocked if you had the ability to travel to the other dimension with a covert card... to respond to..

That would make things crazy.

[doc8466]

Who was it that said Land Shark was going to have his day....???? Hmmm...

Oh yeah......





ME!!!!!!:spade::D

[Anders Møller]

Well Doc it was bound to happen someday that Land Shark became useful (at least in the thread of speculations). :)
Land Shark always seemed like a tech-ish card, but then again it is (for now) about as usefull as Purelace from that other game. so much potential and yet pure rubbish. You gotta love it. :D

[Hordak]

What's always been funny about Land Shark is that its usefulness is directly proportional to the "goodness" of your opponent's deck. He'll probably see a lot of play at high level events in the future, but scrubulent decks will own Land Shark because of their scubulence.

[Century]

What's always been funny about Land Shark is that its usefulness is directly proportional to the "goodness" of your opponent's deck. He'll probably see a lot of play at high level events in the future, but scrubulent decks will own Land Shark because of their scubulence.

I disagree on that, I don't think good decks will always have lots of face down resources.

[Hopes]

I disagree on that, I don't think good decks will always have lots of face down resources.

Actually, once mono decks (and I mean start 2 resurces and play 73 non-resource cards) start seeing play, and it's hapening right now in my local meta, land shark will get a lot better.

[Hordak]

I disagree on that, I don't think good decks will always have lots of face down resources.

It's a generalization to be sure. In general, what I see from newbies is an abject fear of playing resources face down, whereas I see better players more likely to do so.

[Killercoz]

Hordak "little do you know I am member of team ninja"

[LucienofShadow]

Well, as we now know that 'flip out' will be present in the new set, I think that more facedown resources is very likely.

Hmm... we're a little overdo on the next Blarg entry.

[Hordak]

Hordak "little do you know I am member of team ninja"
What're you trying to do? Ruin our ninja like stealth on the board?

Shhh! gotta keep that kind of thing a secret.

[Strmtrpr81]

I have an idea for a mechanic that I would like to see, I do wish it was implemented into the original Part 1 set.

Basically..Cards that Mulligan during a game.

In every card game there are cards that become "Deck Fat" and not that useful in most games. You do have to play these cards though.

Hammer Smash is a perfect example or any item destruction for that matter. Great Card..but not useful all the time...yes, when you do not need it, you have the luxory of dropping it down as a resource, but mid to late game, this "mulligan during game" mechanic would be very useful.

If you happen to have 7 resources and 1 card in hand, you choose to drop a resource using that 1 card in hand, You then pay 3 of your 8 to draw...Great...a Hammer Smash, no items in play, and you needed a Character or removal card, you pay another 3 and you get that card you needed.. but only 2 resources left..oh well.

If you could of just dumped that hammer smash to the bottom of the deck to draw another card, that might be of some use to you.

Either way...just a thought I have had...It wont make or break the game in anyway.

-Dan

[Hordak]

I have an idea for a mechanic that I would like to see, I do wish it was implemented into the original Part 1 set.

Basically..Cards that Mulligan during a game.

In every card game there are cards that become "Deck Fat" and not that useful in most games. You do have to play these cards though.

Hammer Smash is a perfect example or any item destruction for that matter. Great Card..but not useful all the time...yes, when you do not need it, you have the luxory of dropping it down as a resource, but mid to late game, this "mulligan during game" mechanic would be very useful.

If you happen to have 7 resources and 1 card in hand, you choose to drop a resource using that 1 card in hand, You then pay 3 of your 8 to draw...Great...a Hammer Smash, no items in play, and you needed a Character or removal card, you pay another 3 and you get that card you needed.. but only 2 resources left..oh well.

If you could of just dumped that hammer smash to the bottom of the deck to draw another card, that might be of some use to you.

Either way...just a thought I have had...It wont make or break the game in anyway.

-Dan



Like Ameliorate? :p

[Strmtrpr81]

Like Ameliorate? :p

Yes but that card is deck fat to begin with. I am talking about cards that have a use, but if not, you can get rid of them to draw a card

-Dan

[Hordak]

There should always be a cost associated with cycling, and I think it's an overlooked mechanic in terms of power. Ameliorate is never deck fat by your definition. For 1 it can ALWAYS cycle itself even if you don't have anything else clogging your hand (like extra staples).

[Strmtrpr81]

I am not saying it is a bad card. I am saying I rather play cards that are more useful than that.

It doesn't matter what you think honestly, This is about new mechanics, not about me telling you what is right....or wrong.

Any difference of opinion can be discussed my team thread if you want

-Dan

[thegnomishone]

Having seen Ameliorate actually played in a deck, it's a very very solid card. Period.

[Dapuma]

in 94/95 It worked with Demonic Hordes strip mines birds, the 5 cost red card (fissure maybe?) sinkhole stone rain ice storm...it was red green black

i agree it was never consistant...if you didnt kill land on turn two (sometimes one) it wasnt going to win...was really fun to mash someone with it though but it was too unpredictable

good memories

had to stick with the all black discard deck...racks, hymns, mindstab thrulls, hypnos, pair of nightmares/frozen shades, syphon soul (which you would sack for sideboard against white weenie), drain lifes, 4 nev disks, sol ring, underworld dream...that is pretty close to the best deck of the time...time to get some sleep, that just reminded me of the fun time of m:tg...i still have that discard deck somewhere, that is the only thing i would never sell off...oh yeah had a maze of ith too...that card was the best


I don't mean to be ruffling feathers, but since I'm an old school Magic player I can offer a few points.

-The Black Summer was in 1996.

-Land destruction with Sinkhole, Strip Mine, Stone Rain, Ice Storm, and Moxes & Birds of Paradise, with Black Vises was popular before 1996.

-There have only ever been a few tournament worthy LD decks through Magic's history including Legion Land Loss (a mono-green Extended deck from the late 90s), Ponza & Sped Red (both mono red decks relying on some fatties and a lot of Stone Rain type cards), and lately Magnivore decks (Blue/Red deck with lots of LD and bouce for lands and Magnivore to finish the game)

-During this past years Constructed team PTQ season the Magnivore deck was actually the best deck by a small margin.

-I personally have always hated LD decks. The main reason is that they are inconsistently good. When they work, they do so by making your opponent unable to play any cards. To me, that's not very fun. The problem is, when they are working they lead to a non-interactive game state, and when they aren't working they are just annoying and lead to unhappy players.

-You won't be seeing resource destruction any time soon in The Spoils. However, I agree it's good when players are encouraged to do more than just splash 2 icons in one trade. I wonder if Seed will provide some mechanics that encourage that....but in the end variety will come from your local players themselves.

-We'll keep trying to make as many different decks viable as possible, but if you want to see more variety in your local metagame then I encourage you to set an example and build a new killer deck yourself! If you start beating people with it, they'll have to adjust.

Josh Lytle

[D3501473_1]

Ameliorate is a very good card, i ran it in my mono-obsession deck which did okay until people started using untargetable creatures. it's a mid-late game mulligan and I love it =P AND the smell of booby in the morning

[lminer]

What about card effects that only work if you do not have different resource and vice versa.

Or perhaps a character who is purchased under one resource and uses another resource for an added effect.

[Hordak]

I think you'd have to adapt it to use the threshhold idea, like:

Made-Up Dudemajig
4EE
2/2/2
If this card would enter play and you have OOO, this card enters play with 2 tokens on it.

This card gains 1 strength, 1 life, and 1 speed for each token on it.

or

Trade Secret
3EE
Item
Keep it Secret
Cost: Deplete this card.
Effect: Reduce the next numeric cost you pay this turn by 1.

Keep is Safe?
Cost: Use this only if you have GGG. Deplete this card.
Effect: Draw a card.

[KrixKS]

I don't know if this has already been mensioned, but I have a cool idea. What about cards that can turn resources into upside-down resources? (balanced of course)

ex.
Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/0/1
3DDD
You know...just in case.
Place 2 tokens on this card when played. This
card get's one hp for every token on it.
Black Belt Maneuver- Flip over an enemy resource. Take one token off this card.
Sensei would be proud.

[s0b3k]

I don't know if this has already been mensioned, but I have a cool idea. What about cards that can turn resources into upside-down resources? (balanced of course)

ex.
Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/0/1
3DDD
You know...just in case.
Place 2 tokens on this card when played. This
card get's one hp for every token on it.
Black Belt Maneuver- Flip over an enemy resource. Take one token off this card.
Sensei would be proud.

neat idea but baroken! Resource destruction (or even the ability to get rid of a resource icon) is too powerful in the spoils right now (probably for ever really...) when a deck can run with only 2 resources in the deck (double D rogue) playing that card and flipping one of them down SHUTS DOWN THE WHOLE DECK.... that is why that card is to powerful... what about starting 2 greed and flipping one of them... sure you have 1/2 of your deck but the part that was KEY at somepoint is now moot. and if you run 4 of him then you could shut off threash for 2 colors pretty well (some decks run 3 trades and start 1/1 and have main trade only in deck)

[JJP]

I agree that resource destruction is no fun (that is not stopping me from dreaming up wierd things to do with S. Tentacles, tho).

The inverse of this effect might be interesting: turn non-resource card in play into a face down resource. Cheap removal, but would need to be used judiciously.

[KrixKS]

neat idea but baroken! Resource destruction (or even the ability to get rid of a resource icon) is too powerful in the spoils right now (probably for ever really...) when a deck can run with only 2 resources in the deck (double D rogue) playing that card and flipping one of them down SHUTS DOWN THE WHOLE DECK.... that is why that card is to powerful... what about starting 2 greed and flipping one of them... sure you have 1/2 of your deck but the part that was KEY at somepoint is now moot. and if you run 4 of him then you could shut off threash for 2 colors pretty well (some decks run 3 trades and start 1/1 and have main trade only in deck)

The whole point was to induce more thinking when deck building instead of just having 2 or 1 resources of one trade and everything else of another.

I came up with a better version, a lot more balanced in my opinion.

Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/1/1
4DD
You know...just in case.
Place 2 tokens on this card when played. This
card get's one hp for every token on it.
Black Belt Maneuver- Flip over an enemy resource. Take one token off this card. When this card is destroyed, these resources will be returned to their original state.
Sensei would be proud.

[Hordak]

make it 4DDD so prevent the first turn 1337 into it, and it sounds like a fun card. Still grossly powerful, but fun nonetheless :)

[KrixKS]

make it 4DDD so prevent the first turn 1337 into it, and it sounds like a fun card. Still grossly powerful, but fun nonetheless :)

Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/1/1
4DDD
You know...just in case.
Place 2 tokens on this card when played. This
card get's one hp for every token on it.
Black Belt Maneuver- Flip over an enemy resource. Take one token off this card. When this card is destroyed, these resources will be returned to their original state.
Sensei would be proud.


Fixed

I don't think it would be too strong of a card. After all once you use even one up it's pretty easy to kill seeing that it's speed is 1.

[Hordak]

With LL or something to keep it alive (or even Hidden Sammich) you could lock out a whole trade for several turns while your opponent digs and you've risked nothing. That sounds pretty super strong to me. Maybe something like:

4DDD
1/1/1
This card enters play 2 tokens on it.
This card gains 1 life for each token on it.
When this card enters play, flip 2-3 Deception or destroy this card.
If this card leaves play remove all tokens from resources placed there by this card.
Ability
Cost: Remove a token from this card.
Effect: Place a token on a staple resource an opponent controls. While that resource has a token on it, flip it.

[KrixKS]

Oh right, I was thinking about yugioh where you could attack the monster.

Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/0/1
4DDD
Structure
You know...just in case.

When this card enters play place 3 tokens on it.

This card get's one hp for every token on it.

This card looses one token at the end of your turn.

When this card is destroyed, remove all tokens placed by this card.

Black Belt Maneuver -
Cost: Remove a token.
Effect: Place a token on a staple resource an opponent controls. While that resource has a token on it, flip it.

Sensei would be proud.

I stole your wording since it sounds so much more professional. The only thing I added was: "This card must always defend whenever possible."

Edit: Changed a lot more stuff after facing a token deck. :S

[Doomguy 2000]

There should be a new in the next set called Bomb Threat that totally change the game forever. Hey man the more cops the better.

[Goodspeed313]

-You won't be seeing resource destruction any time soon in The Spoils. However, I agree it's good when players are encouraged to do more than just splash 2 icons in one trade. I wonder if Seed will provide some mechanics that encourage that....but in the end variety will come from your local players themselves.




Josh, I'm sorry, but that quote is very very very WRONG.

There has been players at my local tournaments that have built very effective resource destruction.

Granted it involves playing about 4 different cards it works very well.

Start out by getting siege machine into your discard pile (Not hard)

Play a misappropriation machine, use the machine.

Then Play Emergency Obfuscation.

You now control your MM again, you take the Siege machine and begin destroying your opponents resourse over and over and over again starting with face up first of course.

[joshlytle]

Josh, I'm sorry, but that quote is very very very WRONG.

There has been players at my local tournaments that have built very effective resource destruction.

Granted it involves playing about 4 different cards it works very well.

Start out by getting siege machine into your discard pile (Not hard)

Play a misappropriation machine, use the machine.

Then Play Emergency Obfuscation.

You now control your MM again, you take the Siege machine and begin destroying your opponents resourse over and over and over again starting with face up first of course.

Well that's a creative way to destroy resources! Of course, I know there are elaborate ways to destroy them, but no cards outright destroy resources and that's really what I meant. But very interesting!

Josh Lytle

[JJP]

Then Play Emergency Obfuscation.

You now control your MM again, you take the Siege machine and begin destroying your opponents resourse over and over and over again starting with face up first of course.

I have never liked EO, and here is another reason to dislike it. Add this to the multi-turn EO/MM/Q. Ejector loop combo, and I have a canidate for the most despised card in the game.

EDIT: This is not strictly speaking an EO only combo. The Billionare is another way to pull this off without the nasty (potential) side effect of letting your opponent play your hand.

[ImperialAlliance]

Another idea I have is abilities that require threshold. You wouldn't need to deplete them in order to use the ability, but you'll need it in play. It would make it interesting since you could still use the character even without wanting to use its ability. :)

makes me think of pokemon

[ImperialAlliance]

Oh right, I was thinking about yugioh where you could attack the monster.

Secret Samurai Lazer Cannon
1/0/1
4DDD
Structure
You know...just in case.

When this card enters play place 3 tokens on it.

This card get's one hp for every token on it.

This card looses one token at the end of your turn.

When this card is destroyed, remove all tokens placed by this card.

Black Belt Maneuver -
Cost: Remove a token.
Effect: Place a token on a staple resource an opponent controls. While that resource has a token on it, flip it.

Sensei would be proud.

I stole your wording since it sounds so much more professional. The only thing I added was: "This card must always defend whenever possible."

Edit: Changed a lot more stuff after facing a token deck. :S
0 life = dead

[Auranor]

One thing that I would like to see would be the effectiveness of more expensive cards increased. Yay! I played a character that costs 6+... oh, it got "removaled." How about this:

The Class Action Suit
"The Wienies have left the building"
4GGGG
Banker Item

Unique Class Action Suit

This card enters play with 3 tokens on it.

Cost: Pay 4

Effect: Remove a token from this card.

When there are no tokens left on this card, the cost number of cards that cost less than 4 is now 4.

Don't be cruel now.

Not only would we get a bitchin Mau in sequins, but a lot of little cards would be hard to play, and basically not worth their cost. Don't know if 4 thresh and 3 tokens is too much to be effective, but the idea is neat.

[Hordak]

Voidal Poisoning or the Banker token removal cards... :P

[jty3]

How about a card that lets you remove tokens from your opponent's cards, as well as your cards? or add tokens to you cards and opponent's cards?