The Schproingma-Menace [Archive]

Phlyinice

05-07-2007, 08:52 PM

jedibcg

05-07-2007, 10:29 PM

So uh... I wonder how many players will actually be sporting this deck after everyone reads these...

no doubt Schproing is a powerful deck archetype and will remain so even if every other deck has an answer, but it's not going to be nearly as potent or reliable in the future with everyone working against it.

It makes me wonder if someone will come up with a better deck out of the blue and destroy all the decks that are prepared against Schproing.

No way. Maybe. Of course. Spoils has thus far been good about rock, paper, scissor. I have seen no one deck the trumps all others. Most decks have a type the own it and in reverse the owning deck has one the it loses to. Now I am not saying that there isn't one really great deck (someone is sure to brag about the deck that has never lost) there are definately more difficult match up for different decks.

J Caster

05-08-2007, 04:58 AM

(someone is sure to brag about the deck that has never lost).

hahahahahaahahahahahah (10 characters)

DoughboyDominatrix

05-08-2007, 05:13 AM

I've already sported this deck, except it should have elite team reg for the containers and schproings

Exemplar

05-08-2007, 08:56 AM

I agree with DoughboyDominatrix, that would pull them out faster. But not about the Schproingmajig and its combo being broken. I've fought Schproingmajig decks, they're good, but they're hardly worth calling broken. Broken is when something is impossible to beat without a certain card, or creates an infinite loop thats too easy to pull off. The Schproingmajig is one tough cookie, and I'll agree with that. Maybe a little too powerful. But I don't think its broken.

CodyD1024

05-08-2007, 09:20 AM

Urg I wrote a nice, long widned response on this topic that somehow didn't get posted....darn!

But anyway in short, Schproingmajig=good, this article's deck=bad. It does not have many of the key lements of a Schproingmajig deck, and is not in its optimal form.

One of the reasons Schproing is so good is he is Rage proof and Rapine proof. Leaving only 3 trades which effectivley kill him. Saying that Rage can kill a 16/16, or someone who can pump themselves at will is a bit ludacris.

Sabash

05-08-2007, 10:08 AM

One of the reasons Schproing is so good is he is Rage proof and Rapine proof.

How in the world is Schproing Rapine proof? Sure you can sac it to itself so your opponent doesn't get it, but at that point its still dead.

EDIT: Oh and also, that's two reasons. ;)

Hordak

05-08-2007, 10:11 AM

I think he means Rage and Rapine resistant.

J Caster

05-08-2007, 10:32 AM

No.
Rapine is fine against Schproing-majobber.

.......as long as it's used at the right time.

La_Sin_Grail

05-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Why 15 elitism? Am I missing some 5-thresh guys or what?

If you start with two elitism, you shouldn't need more than another eight in the deck to get 3-thresh.

Also, micromajig maker? Comon, dude... if you're playing that many elitism, why not just use avalanche? EoT Avalanche into swinging for lethal sounds like fun to me. Makes them sweat if you leave mana untapped.

Why not play 1337!? This deck just doesn't look as tuned as it could be. You have a decent direction in which to travel, but I'm not seeing this as article worthy on the official site.

While you're generally correct that players beat players, the one with the better deck (or matchup, as the case may be) will win a match with approximately equal skill. This is a rather odd point with which you end a deck primer article, in my opinion.

Why didn't you suggest playing a single banker and four smear campaigns to deal with bleeder? A splash of banker could also allow limited liability, allowing you to all out swing without fear of the counter attack. When they do attack back, they tap out at least partially for your final damage. Or it beats shriever attack...

You're obviously a good player because you see the matchup problems and identify them; I just don't understand why you choose to DO nothing to solve those problems.

Hordak

05-08-2007, 12:57 PM

No.
Rapine is fine against Schproing-majobber.

.......as long as it's used at the right time.

Rapine is just an expensive kill spell against Schproing...making it resistant.

Hopes

05-08-2007, 01:01 PM

This article seems to say that shcrpoingmajig is a great deck which can be defeated by any trade. What good deck can be defeated by anyone? The build posted there has nothing to do with the real schproing thing. 700160x into prototype unnaturally changed into a schproing then 1337!ing a shipping container out is a realistic idea. Don't try to tell me warlord can do anything about that, other than maybe wasting their first turn to stop the alteration by target practicing the elf. Warlord alone cannot consistently win against schproingmajig, at least not the one with an arcanist splash.

And horsemajigs? Nice idea, but not here. People won't play this build, they'll play the one splashing arcanist. It's far better, it was even said in the article! Why not test with the better build if you try to understand how to defeat it? I don't get it.

This is a pretty good article idea, really; we all have been wondering how to beat the schrpoingmajig deck and are all open to every suggestion, but here the writer basically said that certain cards in warlord were good in the long run, which is sadly not helping.

Hordak

05-08-2007, 01:10 PM

Splashing with a single-target-removal-friendly trade is how you beat schproing.

Hopes

05-08-2007, 01:29 PM

Splashing with a single-target-removal-friendly trade is how you beat schproing.

Agreed. Sadly, Warlord has no spot removal.

Hordak

05-08-2007, 02:19 PM

As much as I love warlord, they're way vulnerable to aggro decks that feature higher life characters. That's part of why I think 2 resource rage is a fad and nothing more.

J Caster

05-08-2007, 04:46 PM

Rapine is just an expensive kill spell against Schproing...making it resistant.

It's not expensive if it's played at the right time.

CodyD1024

05-08-2007, 05:08 PM

How so Jcaster?

I agree 100 percent with Hopes, the deck featured there is not optimal, and like I said before Schproing is really rage PROOF. Even the shipping container combo can get through while the bleeder is out....Its just disgusting.

Any T1 deck will HAVE to be built to beat Schproing in mind, at least that would be the smart thing to do.

Brad Meine

05-08-2007, 07:23 PM

Guys, I'm flattered. :D

J Caster

05-09-2007, 04:49 AM

How so Jcaster?

Think about the times when you would play Rapine choosing a schproingmajobber...

one example:
In response to an opponent using the the schproing! ability. Preferably if they paid the cost with something with a high numeric cost.

CodyD1024

05-09-2007, 05:41 AM

J Caster

05-09-2007, 06:54 AM

I happen to disagree Jcaster. I think Rapine, in this instance against Schproingmajig is just not cost efficient. Yes you can do it in response to them saccing a creature (normally only a micromajig shipping container), but you are also saccing one of your guys. It jsut seems too high price to really be worth it.

Ahh the loveable Schproing, The alternate win condition for any dieck with elitism

It's fine to disagree, if we all played the same then each game would boil down to what cards are in your hand/deck with no room for skill/playstyle/ or mistakes.

~I'm curious how Rapine for a mere 5 (and char/item of choice) is not cost efficient against a 16/16 unblockable attacker.....

---(assuming the schproing/container combo) your opponent is losing two characters that cost 6.

I think of it this way...
If some dude is swinging for 16 damage I would want to chump block it, even though whatever blocks that damage will be destroyed.
Rapine is destroying what ever I would have chosen as a chump blocker if the schrpoing wasn't unblockable.

Even if this combo isn't going down Rapine can be played "efficiently" against schproing.

Hordak

05-09-2007, 07:16 AM

Ahhhh, I see where you're coming from now. I'm measuring Rapine's effecieny at shutting down the combo versus other forms of removal, not for self-contained effeciency.

CodyD1024

05-09-2007, 08:52 AM

I too have seen the light JCaster :P. I do agree that in a pinch Rapine will be spot on for killing him, but it would definitley not be my first choice, ever.

Anyone see any ways warlord can deal with him? Becuase I for one don't, and that almost shuts Rage out of being a real competitor. The onyl way would be to do a snake eyes with warlord dmg, or just splash obsession for bounce or something.

Hordak

05-09-2007, 09:50 AM

the only thing I could think of would be heavy direct damage before the container hits play...or kill the container prior to the schproing being able to attack + shriever attack to get the majigs...even then...I dunno.

J Caster

05-09-2007, 10:15 AM

Anyone see any ways warlord can deal with him?

Dragon Tank :D

Really big Barduse
Flaming Barduse+Shriever
Rudo

After a pump up though there's not a whole lot.

JJP

05-09-2007, 10:36 AM

Those aren't really options in turns 2 & 3.

Yar15

05-09-2007, 10:38 AM

When it comes right down to it Schproingmajig is a deck to beat but I would say isn't THE DECK to beat. There are just so many ways around it. Warlord damage + snake eyes, acanist bounce, rapine, Brummagem Jewlery, Heist Planners ect. Personally I would be more worried about straight up control.

Hopes

05-09-2007, 10:55 AM

Warlord will have an extremely hard time playing alone against Schproingy. However, friends of mine had once devised an anti-majig deck, teaming warlord with rogue. If I remember right, the schrpoingy bastard could not survive after swinging once. I'll try to dig up their decklist and post it here, or I'll make my own using the little I remember about it.

OnBoardGames

05-09-2007, 05:01 PM

I have a way better version of this deck, running the horsamajigs is worthless. My version of the deck hasn't lost a match yet in constructed play...

bader74

05-09-2007, 05:03 PM

on the rapine thing i think that if you ever have to play rapine as a kill card then the game should end and someone should be slapped in the face. not that you are wrong, just saying.

Tempest

05-09-2007, 05:22 PM

I have a way better version of this deck, running the horsamajigs is worthless. My version of the deck hasn't lost a match yet in constructed play...

dont you just hate when people say stuff like this and not post a decklist?

La_Sin_Grail

05-09-2007, 06:36 PM

dont you just hate when people say stuff like this and not post a decklist?

Especially witha new game like this, any deck can win if

1) It's played properly

2) It's facing poor competition

I'm not saying any particular deck is, but a decklist is the only way to know if something is legit. I can easily build a deck in ten minutes and thrash most of my school with it (two notable exceptions- both on Strike), but until I take it to the shop and play the really good players, the wins/losses mean nothing.

jeff buckley

05-09-2007, 07:29 PM

Since the release of 1st Edition Part 2, the forums have been lit up with talk of the “Schproingma-Menace.” This is any deck that utilizes Schproingmajig as a win condition.

That's a terrible definition for the Schproing deck.

This Gearsmith deck you're testing is a horsemajig deck that happens to play four schproing and four micromajig shipping container. It is NOT a devoted schproing deck.

Barduses are your best friend in this match up. Flaming Barduse can single handedly ruin a Horsemajig onslaught...

You're completely missing the point of the deck.

You're testing Warlord against Horsemajig.dec. The horses are horrible cards. None of your "answers" solve the main problem: Gearsmith gets a Schproing in play (with enough characters to keep it alive for a turn), then plays a shipping container, and there's nothing Warlord can do that turn to prevent 16+ unblockable damage. It's hard to recover from that.

Join me next time when I take a look at the Banker trade, and how it stands up to Gearsmith aggro.

Ah, a trade that actually has targeted destruction. Obviously, it stands a better chance. Just your try testing with a different Schproing deck.

Cheers.

Hopes

05-10-2007, 03:53 AM

I have a way better version of this deck, running the horsamajigs is worthless. My version of the deck hasn't lost a match yet in constructed play...

Bla Bla Bla DECKLIST!!!!

J Caster

05-10-2007, 05:17 AM

on the rapine thing i think that if you ever have to play rapine as a kill card then the game should end and someone should be slapped in the face. not that you are wrong, just saying.

I'm not even sure what this means....

I'm wondering where all this Rapine-a-schproing hate started.
-It's pretty idiotic

Here we all are sitting in a thread discussing how UBER this card of part II is that has the potential to deliver 16 unblockable damage in one turn!

-Yet it's not so uber that you would waste your rapine to kill it????

.come on now.
.Let's keep it real.

-If anyone is staring down this combo with a Rapine in hand and adequate resources and an item/char for the cost and allows 16 points of damage hit them because they believe rapine "just isn't efficient enough", should probably re-evaluate.

Hordak

05-10-2007, 06:20 AM

I think he's comparing it to possible Scrag or Hidden Sniper + Poisoned Blade...same mistake I made when I first interpretted your point :)

J Caster

05-10-2007, 06:53 AM

I think he's comparing it to possible Scrag or Hidden Sniper + Poisoned Blade...same mistake I made when I first interpretted your point :)

could be, but...

I'm not comparing Rapine to any other cards in the point I made.

I've never claimed Rapine was an optimal solution to schproing, there are several better options.

...but it is a solution, and an adequate trade-off to kill a schproing.

Hordak

05-10-2007, 07:34 AM

What's funny is the original point of the Rapine-proof has been lost. He can't be stolen by it, was the point. Rapine just becomes a kill spell. The misinterpretation was that you were saying Rapine is just fine against Schproing. That's when the arguement came up that it's an overpriced kill spell (when compared to other possible kill spells). It's rather silly that we're still talking about this, but it's best to be clear I suppose. Bottom line:

I'm staring down the barrel of a 16/16/2 unblockable, 5 resources available, and a Rapine in hand (and no Scrag or anything else)...bye bye Schproing.

J Caster

05-10-2007, 07:50 AM

Bottom line:

I'm staring down the barrel of a 16/16/2 unblockable, 5 resources available, and a Rapine in hand (and no Scrag or anything else)...bye bye Schproing.

word:D 10 characters min

bader74

05-12-2007, 08:13 AM

yea if you only have the rapine you gotta do it, but id just feel dirty for doing it.

Tanis1217

05-16-2007, 02:03 AM

Hey everyone. One more playtest voice on the words of Schproingmajig. I play in a pretty competitive environment, though I do not consider any decklist running around completely optimal without a converging metagame.

In any case, Schproingmajig is a nice card. Sure it wins games and validates playing Shipping Container. If you are really greedy you can play Elitism / Warlord to power out an Assimilation Center for the 2 pieces. Even with these great ideas I believe Warlord does not need to beat the Schproingmajig itself. Warlord has *no* spot removal.

I say *no* because there are ways around Schproingmajig. Warlord has a different gameplan than destroying or permanently handling your opponent's win conditions (this would be a control philosophy, not agro). Warlord likes to power out 25 damage as early as possible.

So why not run Distraction? The card works to handle Schproingmajig for 1 turn (often enough in playtesting) and in other matchups offers a resource utility or acts as a second Bulldozer. Also, the card does not jeopardize the agro philosophy. If you playtest your best Warlord build vs. your stand-up Schproingmajig agro you will find that the Schproingmajig wins around 1 turn prior to Warlord finishing the deal. If your results match mine then Distraction seems to fit the bill. If not, then perhaps refine your Warlord deck to be faster.

Beating Gear agro is basically a contest of damage. Warlord plays better creatures that deal damage on a better curve. So long as that remains true, Warlord should out-play Schproingmajig.

infidel07

05-24-2007, 11:16 AM

no way sproing will eat ur distraction and then come for ur wife and children

Hordak

05-24-2007, 11:22 AM

What if your opponent makes the first action of his turn to attack with Schproing?

Brad Meine

05-24-2007, 11:25 AM

What if your opponent makes the first action of his turn to attack with Schproing?
Then you kick yourself in the nuts for play distraction.
But he probably means in response to your opponent playing shipping container on turn 3.

Fishman

05-24-2007, 11:33 AM

When are we going to see the rest of the article series?

infidel07

05-24-2007, 12:03 PM

sproingmajigs dont get distracted there bloodlust is insatiable

Hopes

05-24-2007, 06:20 PM

When are we going to see the rest of the article series?

Seeing the general reaction... I'd say we won't.

Brad Meine

05-24-2007, 08:53 PM

Seeing the general reaction... I'd say we won't.
fair assumption.

infidel07

05-25-2007, 07:09 AM

they should just get good players to write the articles. like yours truly. i can make 4 different sproing decks that are way better without even looking at my deck boxes

The Spoils of Hangover

06-28-2007, 04:59 PM

I'm not interested in arguing or fighting with anyone. This is my personal opinion. I stopped playing Magic because they were basically pre-building decks within a subset. The combos were so obvious that even the Pokemon kids were kicking a. The gearsmiths, again in my opinion, were already one of the most powerful groups in edition one. I don't really understand why they made them more powerful. The first edition was so balanced, so fun. I could play with anyone and have a good time. Now I feel like I'm playing a Sliver deck at every corner. A Sliver deck combined with several kinds of demonic tutors, some included in the card's cost. I just can't understand. I loved the bankers in the first set. I loved the rogues, and the gearsmiths, and the warlords. I even saw potential in the arcanists. Are these gearsmith decks just rehashes of the broken elements of the Mirrodin block and Unlimited set of Magic. I can't wait to play more with edition 2 cards. I'll probably recant all that I am saying, but until then I refuse to play a pre-made idea. Flavor is about individual taste, I don't want to be force fed something, and told that it is the best. I regret that I sound so pointed, I just love the potential of a brand new game. The Spoils has taken care of almost every bad aspect of Magic. Please go easy on me on your responses. I mean nobody harm. Game on :)

CodyD1024

06-28-2007, 07:00 PM

Necromancy 4tw? Even though I do agree with you

Silverwolf

06-28-2007, 07:25 PM

I can't wait to play more with edition 2 cards. I'll probably recant all that I am saying....

Try playing a Schproing deck (especially against relatively skilled players), and you will find that it really isn't as powerful as it seems. A lot of things seem really powerful when you first look at them, but it always turns out there are plenty of counters to it. I love playing Emergency Obfuscation when my opponent is playing Schproing, and watch how badly it works against them (and also hope they have a Precise Sabotage or the like in their hand as well).

Give the cards a shot, and try to play with more people than just the same few, if you aren't.

La_Sin_Grail

06-28-2007, 07:46 PM

If you play a schproingmajig deck against decks that aren't well-built, you will rock their world. However, if a deck is built properly, it's easy to take care of. You'll find that schproing works amazingly well against people who aren't experts, but people who leave spaces in their decks for a:

quotidian assasination, rapine, brummagem jewelry, incriminating photograph, distraction (I make a 16/16 schproing unblockable! *Deplete*), SiN (death before schproing), mercenary's creed, forget, quotidian ejector, summary judgement, executive poaching, jacque's trap... you get the idea. There's ways to stop it, it's not as unstoppable as say dragonstorm in MTG.

Hordak

06-28-2007, 07:59 PM

You missed Billionaire (now you're SUPER unblockable!) :p

The Spoils of Hangover

06-28-2007, 08:35 PM

infidel07

06-28-2007, 10:17 PM

idk u make valid points. it seems like this set did lean elitism.

sproing is really good. it works well. i dont design a deck around it but there are ways to do it at a later point in the game (aftr some control is established) and ur opponent knows its over. yes all the answers are great in theory but that is if the answer is in the hand (hand destruction), if u can top card it (deck destruction) and the mean way, interferenc (vacation or the obbsession one + misfire = game over)

watever u could just get SiN before any of that happens anyway although i think SiN is like spoils for dummies

CodyD1024

06-29-2007, 06:53 AM

Haha, SiN, so easy even Coins can copy it!

But anyway I kind of agree with infidel here. Schrpoingmajig IMO cannot be the basis of a deck anymore. However, in a controlish type of deck where your opponent won't have a hand, man is it a good win condition.

Hordak

06-29-2007, 07:03 AM

I still love Schproing because he's such an OBVIOUS win condition. Hey! Kill me before it's too late! He might as well be a ferret as anything that could pick him basically must...except that if they don't have an answer he ends the game.

He's certainly not worthy of being your deck's centerpiece, but he makes a statement of your intentions.

J Caster

06-29-2007, 08:29 AM

.... but he makes a statement of your intentions.

LOL

CARL: "I aim to keell you wid it....uggg huh!"

redstarbaron

07-08-2007, 08:30 PM

Anybody else wondering where the rest of this series of articles went? I mean, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to finish Spiegel-Blum's thought for him, but I'd still be somewhat interested in hearing what he (or anyone else, really) has to say on the topic.

I was very glad to note, however, that very few Schproingmajig decks were being run at the Invitationals (at least the ones that had tourney reports posted). I'd say that this, more than anything, proves that the Spoils is not inclined towards monolithic metas or "unbeatable" deckbuilds.

Falsesanity

07-08-2007, 09:08 PM

I really thought that this board was going to rip my opinion to shreds. I appreciate your input, especially la sin grail. I am an extreme newbie to the game, but I've been playing and reading the spoilers daily. I'm really glad that I now know some of the best ways to defeat this powerhouse deck. Dragonstorm did suck. (Tenacious Games, please don't do that to us).

sincerely,

russell

It is still a bomb in sealed... but yeah in constructed if it's in your meta be sure to see anti sproing decks

But welcome to the community here, you'll find out most of us here are nice

But yeah I had a friend who knew we'd see some 2d Deception decks at the invitational so he had the bright idea of what wreaks a 2 threshold deck? LAND SHARK.... problem is the bigger the shark it... the more ways deception has to wreak him ha ha. I still don't think one deck has the crown here yet, some deck are good but you still need some skill to play them. I like this game because it's still rock paper scissors at least thats what I am still seeing...