The lack of ...

[The_Sin]

Hello all,

As most of you noticed (judging by the slew of pm's I received) I took a little time away from the spoils. I am back, and am still a little distressed to find that there still is no defined meta - game. I personally feel that the spoils has great potential; however, as a community the general player base is sub par (no offense to anyone these are just general opinions). I feel that these sub par players are products of an unorganized meta game. No one knows what to expect at tourneys, just that some people will be playing this aspect, so own and so forth. Publicized skeletons have yet to be posted for the masses to see. The games terminology is not being explained to new comers, which is resulting in an inadvertently schism between players. The gap in player skill is becoming increasingly more significant. I enjoy competition, so its hard for me to sit down at a table and defeat an opponent with ease, while they sit there and say, "Man, I almost had you!" It was never even close. So I propose this:

PROJECT META

I will be writing articles with the help of some of the better players here (Don't be surprised if I PM some of you a couple of times), in hopes to create a gauntlet for standard constructed play, and bringing organization to the spoils meta - game.

Thoughts and or comments?

[J Caster]

I'm curious to see where this goes.

[1r0n w!LL]

First the new set has been legal for 5 weeks. There have hardly even been any constructed IQs much less tournaments that would create a global meta-game. Most players have two hands and are still looking for their flashlight with which to find their 1E2 rear-end. :)

The best pool of decks you will find anywhere on internet can be found on http://spoilscircuit.googlepages.com/home. Are these decks good meta-game defining decks? No, but some of them show what people are thinking about and are a good starting point. Are the decks even all that good? Not especially because many of the best players are holding back their best stuff. They know these tournaments are going to result in the decks being broadcast.

If you or anyone else wants to find the good players, they are frequently on irc playing with MWS. Not everyone on irc is great, but the competition is a lot better than you are going to find in your local store. And I suspect most of the best players are not going to play their best decks against a stranger, but if you get on irc and beat a good player playing one of their tier 2 or 3 decks, you may just impress someone enough to get them to share technology with you.

[Hopes]

There can't really be a defined meta game for now, considering how few constructed tournaments are being run and the small size of our player base.

[taintedzodiac]

There is no meta because there have been no tournaments. You can write articles about the best decks in a geographic area or the most versatile ones, but you cannot by definition describe a meta, because it doesn't exist.

I think this is a great idea to write some articles to make the playerbase more knowledgable. I just think you're using the wrong terminology.

[1r0n w!LL]

There is no meta because there have been no tournaments.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Spoils Circuit has had 19 constructed 4 man qualifiers. These tournaments have not defined the meta-game, but they tell you a lot about it.

[Fry]

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Spoils Circuit has had 19 constructed 4 man qualifiers. These tournaments have not defined the meta-game, but they tell you a lot about it.
There is some incredible jank in there though...I will openly admit there is a deck in there built around Poisoned Blade...that doesn't actually have a Poisoned Blade in it. Yeah, I R n00b.

[The_Sin]

There is some incredible jank in there though...I will openly admit there is a deck in there built around Poisoned Blade...that doesn't actually have a Poisoned Blade in it. Yeah, I R n00b.

It happens, pretty constant as well. I am not sure if you are familiar with MTG; however, one of the more popular online decks right now is Dralnu de Lourve, and it does not run any Dralnu's anymore.

BTW

What is the next major contruscted toruney. Is it the spring Contructed, or is there a con some where before that?

[taintedzodiac]

What is the next major contruscted toruney. Is it the spring Contructed, or is there a con some where before that?

I think it's the SCC.

On a side note, to further explain my previous point:

This is not Magic, which is the most important point. There is no single meta because the game is not that popular yet, and because there have been no major constructed tournaments yet. I know that I, like many people here, expect to be able to look online soon and see decks divided into Tier 1, Tier 2, Rogue, etc. This is not going to happen for some time, except for local and regional metas.

Enjoy this (probably brief) period of time where you can experiment with decks and take a new idea to a constructed tournament and honestly expect to do well. This is the time where being the best player in general will win you more games than studying what other people are playing.

[Fry]

It happens, pretty constant as well. I am not sure if you are familiar with MTG; however, one of the more popular online decks right now is Dralnu de Lourve, and it does not run any Dralnu's anymore.Yes, but Dralnu is actually not really critical to the Dralnu deck. My deck didn't actually work without Poisoned Blades...my computer ate my decklist and then in my hurry to reassemble it while people were waiting for me to upload my list I kind of neglected to get them back in. :P

[Brad Meine]

If you want a global metagame, then netdeck. Create a website where people can post their Spoils decks and so people can rate/comment on them. You may even want to post winning decklists; EX: 5k Constructed decklists. I won't speak for or against netdecking, but if more than a local meta is what you want, then this is how you'd start one.

Of course, everyone could reference any of the bzillion TCG website that offer something like this, yet the people in the community that have built guides exclusively for the Spoils have not gone unappreciated. (tournamentfaction, spoilscircuit, athena)

[smilelttldevil]

Hello all,

As most of you noticed (judging by the slew of pm's I received) I took a little time away from the spoils. I am back, and am still a little distressed to find that there still is no defined meta - game. I personally feel that the spoils has great potential; however, as a community the general player base is sub par (no offense to anyone these are just general opinions). I feel that these sub par players are products of an unorganized meta game. No one knows what to expect at tourneys, just that some people will be playing this aspect, so own and so forth. Publicized skeletons have yet to be posted for the masses to see. The games terminology is not being explained to new comers, which is resulting in an inadvertently schism between players. The gap in player skill is becoming increasingly more significant. I enjoy competition, so its hard for me to sit down at a table and defeat an opponent with ease, while they sit there and say, "Man, I almost had you!" It was never even close. So I propose this:

PROJECT META

I will be writing articles with the help of some of the better players here (Don't be surprised if I PM some of you a couple of times), in hopes to create a gauntlet for standard constructed play, and bringing organization to the spoils meta - game.

Thoughts and or comments?

I love me some SIN MEDINA.

Great idea. Thanks for keeping me in the loop.

[Hopes]

Hmmm... I'd be happy to write for you, but where's my pm? :rolleyes:

[warallthetime]

If you want a global metagame, then netdeck. Create a website where people can post their Spoils decks and so people can rate/comment on them. You may even want to post winning decklists; EX: 5k Constructed decklists. I won't speak for or against netdecking, but if more than a local meta is what you want, then this is how you'd start one.

Of course, everyone could reference any of the bzillion TCG website that offer something like this, yet the people in the community that have built guides exclusively for the Spoils have not gone unappreciated. (tournamentfaction, spoilscircuit, athena)

For once I mostly agree with Brad. I am indifferent with the netdecking because in the end people who copy the decks will never have the complete skill to pilot them the way their creators. But I do believe in posting decks because the meta will become stagnant with Gearsmith decks if people dont know their not the only trade in the game. I'd I read many of the guides wriiten by many of the popular names on the boards and they are all very good and contain knowledge that knot only helps those just diving into the spoils but also those who need help in some areas but are overall good players. The one problem I had with the game is drafting. I draft like a Magic player and didnt restrict myself to trades but rather took a slew of goo cards with a spread that I thought to be good. I've learned a lot about drafting the spoils since then from the better players on the site and I do believed it tightened my game seeing that sealed tournies cut to top 8 and draft. Well I' done with my rambling for now but I will have several decklists from C4con going up soon from our Constructed event and hopefully that helps a little.

[Excel Saga]

I'll Post my favorite deck right now

16 elitism
2 obsession ( starting )

42 Characters
4 Basic Node
4 Research Assistant
4 633fy 31f
4 700160x 31f
4 Contriving Engineer
3 Sagacious 31f
4 Spastic Tentacle
4 Quotidian Ejector
4 Serville Centipede
4 Swarming Gnats
3 Violating Anamoly

9 Tactics
4 12 man Brunch
4 Forget
1 Research Investment

6 Items
4 Lutoderm Prototype
2 One-Legged Hopping Pogo-Bear

It's known as toolbox you just swarm and rush the field, nothing really slows it down or stops it. It consistently beats opposing decks, way too many options and tricks hidden within it. Only weakness is you have to out rush it and the only 3 decks I've seen do it are mono-elitism, warlord/banker, and rogue/banker. Even then they have to top deck certain cards just to be able to survive against my rush.

[Excel Saga]

As for meta in constructed I see 11 viable deck options among 3 major rock paper scissor trios

Anything with Elitism = rock
Anything with obsession = scissor
Anything without gearsmith or obsession = paper

First trio ( rock ) elitism was given lots more options for toolboxing their decks for any card they need, the fastest and most consistent of which is mono gear. Anything that uses elitism tries to rush first few turns ( 1-4 ) does a cheesy combo in mid game turns ( 5-7 ), and finishes you off by turn ( 8-10 ). Any hybrid with gear uses the gear cards to search for different cheesy combos around mid game turns ( 5-7). Cheesiest I've seen is early retirement on something with Lutoderm goliath to draw 12 cards, or schproingmajig after damage is assigned to faction early retired to draw 16 after a cargo container sacrificed to it. 5 very good decks

Second trio ( scissor ) anything with obsession tries to stall the game and wait for the right moment to unload a game changing tactic. Overall plan is to stall game wait for right moment then hose them with tactic from their hybrid color. Obsession itself has no beef and is far too slow to be competitive so you end up hybriding it with something else. 3 new decks listed obsession/rage, obsession/banker, obsession/rogue.... already posted a deck list for gear/obsession. My favorite is Raphine with 4 voidal replications the turn after I used arcana experiment. Most consistent however is rage/obsession you have tacticians vacation, shriever attack, torrential bleeder, violating anamoly, serville centipede, and forget all in the same deck do I really have to explain anything else.

Thrid trio ( paper ) anything without obsession or gearsmith. Rage/deception, Rage/greed, and Greed/Deception, are viable because their the only hybrids capable of out rushing mono gearsmith. Doing this however means the use of really big characters really quickly and as such these characters dont have any other purpose than to go aggressive on someone and kill indescriminately. Nastiest is turn 1 ( 4 erotic assasin 1 embezzling book keeper ) turn 2 ( orgy den smoke out, pillaging pirate ) turn 3 swashbuckler. Followed by martial arts master is a very nasty perdicament for any constructed deck to handle.

Each trio has its strengths and weaknesses and has hard time facing others in the trio. Me personally my bet is on a rogue/gearsmith or a rogue/banker deck to win a constructed tournament because they can aggressively mulligan and their early and mid game drops are nasty and hard to handle.

[J Caster]

Nastiest is turn 1 ( 4 erotic assasin 1 embezzling book keeper ) turn 2 ( orgy den smoke out, pillaging pirate ) turn 3 swashbuckler. Followed by martial arts master is a very nasty perdicament for any constructed deck to handle.


;) This must be using that new faction I heard of that lets you go first with 11 cards in your hand and the ability to develop resources at the begining of your turn AND your opponents ;)

...amiright ? :D



-I would never recommend dropping 4 erotic assasins on turn one.

[Excel Saga]

If you go second

first turn use up 6 cards ( resource, 4 erotics, 1 embezzling )
second turn use up 3 cards ( resource, pillaging, orgy den smoke out )
thrid turn development draw play swashbuckler
fourth turn development draw play martial arts master

sorry for typo but miracle hands do happen sometimes just not that often :)

44 down 285 to go then I can catch J Caster in post count :)

[navymontel]

I'll Post my favorite deck right now

16 elitism
2 obsession ( starting )

42 Characters
4 Basic Node
4 Research Assistant
4 633fy 31f
4 700160x 31f
4 Contriving Engineer
3 Sagacious 31f
4 Spastic Tentacle
4 Quotidian Ejector
4 Serville Centipede
4 Swarming Gnats
3 Violating Anamoly

9 Tactics
4 12 man Brunch
4 Forget
1 Research Investment

6 Items
4 Lutoderm Prototype
2 One-Legged Hopping Pogo-Bear

It's known as toolbox you just swarm and rush the field, nothing really slows it down or stops it. It consistently beats opposing decks, way too many options and tricks hidden within it. Only weakness is you have to out rush it and the only 3 decks I've seen do it are mono-elitism, warlord/banker, and rogue/banker. Even then they have to top deck certain cards just to be able to survive against my rush.

Its not your favorite deck anymore, because you took out your Arcanists and replaced them with Rogue....YOU'RE A TRAITOR...CLOCKMAN POLICE...SEIZE HIM!!!!

[Excel Saga]

I only did it so that I can beat certain people who run decks that summon l33t haxxor on turn 2

[s0b3k]

To compair this game to magic is wrong but i am going to anyways... Before there are any major tournaments there is a defined albeit weak meta, courtesy of big-wigs like Mike Flores and other members of the magic uppercrust posting on websites like Starcitygames.com, of course all of those decks now have the set base to back them up (I.E. people have had time to familiarize themselves with some of the sets before the new set comes in) also Friday night magic is a wonderful way to playtest tweak, and see the game in action, building mini meta games before the major tournaments, much like our IQ's but our IQ's are less effective sadly (probably due to the lack of player volume) And player volume is what everything boils down to spread the word and get spoils out there, convert the best magic player you know along w/ all yu gi o (whatever) pokemon Vs. LOTR and any other games out there too! the community will create a meta when there IS a community.

[Lioge]

Always keep in mind that the Embezzeling Bookeeper was printed at 4 toughness to combo with the Erotic Assassins for a turn three kill.

Turn one:
Develop 1 Resource
4 X Erotic Assassin
1 Embezzling Bookeeper

Turn Two:
Develop 1 Resource
Attack with everything (opponent at 14 life)
pay four and restore two Erotic Assassin at opponents EOT

Turn Three:
Develop Draw or Resource
Restore two Erotic Assassin and swing for the win if there are no blockers.

[1r0n w!LL]

Lioge, I cannot tell if you meant your last post as joke; I see people bring up 4 EA from time to time as a serious consideration. The chance of pulling 4 EA in your opening had with an aggressive mulligan is approximate 0.04%(2500 to 1). That percentage does not exclude the draws where you don't draw bookkeeper. I usually consider 2% (50 to 1) to be the threshold of extremely unlikely to occur in any given game. 2 EAs occurs with meaningful frequency. 3 in your opening passes the 50 to 1 threshold.

I recommend if you want to build serious decks, worry about 2 EAs and not 3 or more.


Always keep in mind that the Embezzeling Bookeeper was printed at 4 toughness to combo with the Erotic Assassins for a turn three kill.

[Lioge]

I was mistaken and put toughness instead of strength, let me explain though.

While the post I mention is not at all something to consider with any frequency, the development of the Embezzling Bookeeper (EB) took into consideration the possibility of the 4 Erotic Assassin's (EA) with 1 EB. I am NOT at all suggesting that the deck should rely on winning with this specific setup, just mentioning that the EB was designed with the strength specifically in mind.

For instance,

4 EA's swing with a 3/4/3 and you get 15 damage.
2 EA's swing with a 3/4/3 the next turn and you get 9 damage.

The situation provides 24 damage with no blocks, one turn shy of winning.

On the contrary,

4 EA's swing with 1 EB and you get in 16 damage.
2 EA's swing with 1 EB next turn and you get 10 damage.

That equal's the exact increment necessary (now 26 damage) to bring this damage threshold up to a win that turn instead of prolonging the fight.

While this is not only a god hand, it assumes that the opponent has no blockers or removal and had to be considered when designing the EB.

The mono-banker deck has neither the speed nor the consistency of the mono-gearsmith deck, but the splash of banker does present this (highly unlikely) possibility.

Typically, when I'm posting a tongue in cheek topic I'll make sure to be crystal clear that I'm joking. I know full well that the written word doesn't transfer the subtle nuances that innuendo presents in spoken word.

[J Caster]

Chicken or the egg?

[Hordak]

As the recently departed Jerry Falwell would say, "The chicken, and may you burn in the lake of fire for asking the question".

[Lioge]

As the recently departed Jerry Falwell would say, "The chicken, and may you burn in the lake of fire for asking the question".


Somewhere, off in the distance, Howard Stern, Hugh Hefner, and Larry Flynt are having a party.