Online con. decks

[J Caster]

Lately the competitive Deck forums have been pretty quiet.
It would be nice to seem some real discussions on the contructed enviroment now that peeps are using Part II.
(which has been silent since the WCC's).

Obviously people are making decks to compete with, some examples come from the online tourny qualifiers that have been going on.

A list of qualifed decks can be found here: http://spoilscircuit.googlepages.com/qualifiedlist69

I'll start by posting the deck i qual'd with:

Please feel free to make any comments (i won't cry if you rip on my pile :D )
or ask any questions about certain card choices.

// Lands
2 [STP] Greed (starting obv.)
16 [STP] Deception
1 [STP] The Tournament Faction

// Creatures
4 [1E2] Key Man
4 [1ED] Swashbuckler
4 [1ED] Erotic Assassin
3 [1ED] Pillaging Pirate
4 [1E2] Embezzling Bookkeeper
4 [1E2] Snooty Doorman
4 [1E2] Hired Goons

// Spells
4 [1ED] Yoink!
4 [1ED] Scrag
3 [1ED] Emergency Obfuscation
4 [1E2] Mercenary's Creed
3 [1ED] Rapine
4 [1ED] Irresistible Bribe
4 [1ED] Brummagem Jewelry
4 [1E2] Smear Campaign

[redstarbaron]

Wow... that, uh, actually looks like a pretty excellent deck.

If I were playing aggressive Rogue/Banker, I'd probably replace Yoink! with something like Heist Planner or Limited Liability, since Yoink! isn't good for anything if your opponent isn't running gear cards. Also, has the Emergency Obfuscation come in handy?

I typically run aggressive Warlord/Banker, but I may have to try something like this out. Well done.

[J Caster]

Wow... that, uh, actually looks like a pretty excellent deck.

If I were playing aggressive Rogue/Banker, I'd probably replace Yoink! with something like Heist Planner or Limited Liability, since Yoink! isn't good for anything if your opponent isn't running gear cards. Also, has the Emergency Obfuscation come in handy?

I typically run aggressive Warlord/Banker, but I may have to try something like this out. Well done.

Thanks for the kind words :D .

Yoink was included:
-I included yoink (a full 4 run even) due to the lack of item removal inherent to this "color" combo.
-I also find it can synergize well with , Merc's Creed, Brummagem's and smear campaign in certain situations.
-It also serves as an answer to the abundance of decks abusing 700160x 31f's ability.

Emergency Obfuscation was included:
-E.O. can have several uses. It was included mostly as a "global Meta-choice" (if such a thing even exists) against the brokenness of the schproingma-jobber it will inevitably face at some point, in the event I don't have the cards to steal it.

-It also serves in it's most basic capacity as a win condition given I have enough strength on board to swing for the win.

Heist planner wasn't included:
-I felt Heist planner wasn't aggro enough. In addition I'm not using any graverobbing mechanics in this deck to take full advanage of his ability.

-I also felt the "recon" aspect of the planners ability (while powerfull) to remove threats also didn't fit the aggro feel of this deck since it doesn't have any GLARING weaknesses to certain cards ( i.e. shriever...SIN...pluck...etc).

Limited Liability wasn't included:
-Another powerfull some might call "staple" card that didn't make this version of the deck. The decision basically hinged on it not fitting "the feel" of the deck.

-L.L may find it's way into a future version of this deck after more playtesting.

[LucienofShadow]

Why Key Man? That choice just doesn't make much sense to me, I'm not much of a fan of the card and you're only running 3 cards that take advantage of it (Rapine)

[J Caster]

-Keyman simply put is a 1 cost body with a good death ability.
-he makes a good chump for little investment and gives you a card when he dies.

-He's a great turn 2 drop: either by himself (and leaving 3 resources to draw with) or in conjunction with my 3 drops that often see turn two play (bookeepper, snooty doorman, brummagem, bribe).

He was kind of experimental:
his inclusion is more of a play choice than a card choice.
with this deck, I like to either use all my resources in a turn keepping pressure on my opponent, or leaving my resources in (x's of 3) for drawing @ EOT.

Key man fits a niche where I found in certain situations I was leaving one resource unspent while applying pressure, or when leaving unspent resources in multiples of 3 +1. (4, 7, ....).

Keyman is my attempt at cleaning up wasted resources.




He is a weaker link though and may not survive the cut in the future.





But I'm still a noob so what fo I know anyway ;)

[redstarbaron]

I think Key Man is a great card. It's built-in resource advantage and really cheap board presence.

Also, good point with the Yoink! for use on your own gear. Silly of me to overlook, really.

[megrim220]

I think this deck looks pretty solid, and reading your responses explains a lot of the few questions I would consider asking. I like that you've really put in the effort to make this deck run aggro banker, and not just additional banker cards for stall and control. I totally agree that keyman is awesome. He keeps you on tempo without giving up too many resources, and helps with the straggling resources. Im just going to throw a few cards out there that I might have included since I've been considering building something like this, and I like the way you explain your choices.

1. That zero cost rez tech card?
2. Anes. Opulance? I've seen people in my area actually running this over Brummagem to pick up some slots. I'd love your opinion on that.
3. No Martial Artists?

Im sure I'll come up with some more later, but those will do for now. Thanks, and great deck.

[aldrinanymous]

I like the way this deck is building because its sort of the path im taking with my deck. Im proving to my friend Excel Saga that aggro bank will conquer! :p Either way, how you make your deck is your preference, and how others make theirs is theres. I myself run a lot of the same creatures minus keyman. I'm too broke for another hired goons at the moment. I just have heist planners in at the moment but I haven't been doin great with it in my deck. The only thing i'd do differently from your deck is running warehouse and orgys, other than that it looks fine with me!

[J Caster]

I think this deck looks pretty solid, and reading your responses explains a lot of the few questions I would consider asking. I like that you've really put in the effort to make this deck run aggro banker, and not just additional banker cards for stall and control. I totally agree that keyman is awesome. He keeps you on tempo without giving up too many resources, and helps with the straggling resources. Im just going to throw a few cards out there that I might have included since I've been considering building something like this, and I like the way you explain your choices.

1. That zero cost rez tech card?
2. Anes. Opulance? I've seen people in my area actually running this over Brummagem to pick up some slots. I'd love your opinion on that.
3. No Martial Artists?

Im sure I'll come up with some more later, but those will do for now. Thanks, and great deck.


1. Postmortem deben-whatever: There's not a lot in this deck that I think is worth bringing back to my hand enough to want to include this card.

2. Anesthetizing Opulence: I like this card. It's a great card for dealing with big fatties, a potential contender for inclusion in the future. Initially I didn't include it in favor of bribe due to numeric cost, I like 3 cost removal better than 4 cost, (3 cost also fits my playstyle better of leaving resources in x's of 3 at my EOT) plus bribe is a favorable removal tactic for smaller characters............... this deck tends to want to steal fatties not remove them.

3. No Martial Artists?: NO! Martial Artist really doesn't play into the strengths of this deck. I have yet to be impressed by a naked martial artists.

They cost too much IMO. 6 for a 4/3/4?... I'de rather draw 2 cards than play that. Sure he's 4 speed and untargetable (which IS nice) but he dies in combat easy enough (naked). If this deck faces M.A. I just attack in groups that will kill him.
Even if it trades for one of my attackers, for 6 resources I'll come out ahead and still have one surviving (even if snake eyes is used I win the resource battle).....Poisoned blade changes things a little (but then again, I am running 4 yoinks).

-IMO, Martial Artist isn't really a viable threat until you start attaching gear to him, and that's really not the direction I want to take with this deck.

If someone wanted to build a deck using my decklist as a starting point and arbitrarily removed 4 cards to add 4 Martial Artists, I think the M.A would slow this deck down considerably.



I like the way this deck is building because its sort of the path im taking with my deck. Im proving to my friend Excel Saga that aggro bank will conquer! Either way, how you make your deck is your preference, and how others make theirs is theres. I myself run a lot of the same creatures minus keyman. I'm too broke for another hired goons at the moment. I just have heist planners in at the moment but I haven't been doin great with it in my deck. The only thing i'd do differently from your deck is running warehouse and orgys, other than that it looks fine with me!



Awesome!
By all means post whatever decklist you come up with. Orgies were in an earlier incarnation of this deck.
The WHOLE reason behind posting my deck was to try and jumpstart this stagnant Constructed Forum and get some dialog started.

[CodyD1024]

I think the problem, me included, is that people don't want to share their "best" decks. People rather keep them a secret, waiting to release them at conventions, or things like that.

I'm all for releasing decks if you want to, so that I can see waht I will be playing, but that may be the reason others are not doing so, which then creates an unknown meta before large events.

Noe onto your deck:

I'm not sure I would play The HIred Goons, they just cost too much, I know they are a alte game push, but I still don't really like them.

A card I would have put in was SHort Term Investment, IMO it is one of the best cards in the new set, draw 3 cards for 2...SURE!


-Cody

[J Caster]

Thanks for the reply Cody.

I completely agree with your assesment as to the reasoning behind the silence from some of the "better players" in the constructed forum.

Quite frankly it's LAME.
...If you're the better player, you're the better player "net-decking" won't work if you don't have the skills. Which is why I don't agree with the "secret-tech" silence.

-Besides this is The Spoils, there's no $$ in constructed. Limited is where it's at.

I also believe my skills won't increase if the playerbase is still in the "stoneage" as one of my favorite posters has put it. The community won't grow and our skills will never be challeneged if we all remain silent and hoard all our "secret-tech".

The reason why I started this now is because some people are beginning to reveal their constructed ideas.....hint hint http://spoilscircuit.googlepages.com/qualifiedlist69 and it's time some real dialog about contructerd choices started (besides the OMG schrpoing-ma-jobber is broken)

Skill-wise I rate myself somewhere between "suck" and "goodish".
Hopefully by "putting it out there" I force myself to improve and deal with people knowing and expecting a certain playstyle and card choice from me.



Also cody on the Hired Goons:

I love em!:D So far in play testing they deliver.

Short term investment I havn't tried yet in this deck, I'm not sure what I would take out for it yet.

But thanks for the input just the same :)

[CodyD1024]

I agree that it is skill which determines the better player. However, giving someone a head start on that cool deck you just made, IMO, isn't a smart idea. Ithink however, thats just my attitude in life in general.

Im a very selfish and personal person, I try to do everything myself, and if I didn't do it, I lead to beleive it wasn't done right. I do have to agree though, discussing particular decks is vital to developing the meta.

Heres something I would like to point out, right now obsession, elitism and deception rule the meta IMO. If your deck dosn't have either IMO, it is hard to do well, not that it won't, it just makes it more difficult.

DISCUSS!

-Cody

[J Caster]

Heres something I would like to point out, right now obsession, elitism and deception rule the meta IMO. If your deck dosn't have either IMO, it is hard to do well, not that it won't, it just makes it more difficult.

DISCUSS!

-Cody

You forgot Greed and Rage :D

[CodyD1024]

Lol, but seriously, obsession and deception especially seem so strong now. Obsession has so many bounce aspects, and the rapines are still huge in deception. In every deck so far, It has contianed one or the other.

The only reason i put elitism in the first post, is because its so very fast, But im not sure how well it works with other trades.

-Cody

[megrim220]

I think when I said Martial artists it was because I didnt have the cards directly in front of me. Specifically I think trainee is worth it as his 3 cost, so I'd be interesting to see what you think of for that card. I definately agree that the artist himself isnt so great.

I agree with you that we should try to get something going that fits this forum. Some kind of really solid Competitive deck conversation, because constructed is really starting to pick up and I'd love to get help on my deck (which I'll be posting in the next day or so.)

As for hired goons, the goons are AMAZING in this deck. They're the covert beats, but they're also utility. they block deceptive muddlers, invis-hatted annoyances, and also can just be game enders. the deck undeniably needs that beef slot in covert, and theres no way I'd be willing to pay a quarter of my life to play the other goon. This deck has been streamlined to draw win conditions, so I dont think Short term investment would be necessary.

I look forward to letting my deck get ripped up when I post it later on, the comments coming off these topics have been really solid.

[CodyD1024]

I'm not sure I agree with you about the need for a beat stick covert. Not many decks abuse covert, and if they do, throw a jewelery, or a smear campaign on em, nd make em think twice.

I agree that it is a nice beatstick, BUt its a huge resource sink, and does not help you if you are already winning, or if your opponent is swarming you.

I guess the card is good in this deck, but I still say look into short term investment, the draw 3 cards can be huge, whether its kill cards for schrpoing, or something else.

Also, I would maybe think about the BIllionaire, no other card combats shcrpoing as well as it does. You can wipe his entire board with just one billionaire, and control it for some time longer.

-Cody

[J Caster]

I think when I said Martial artists it was because I didnt have the cards directly in front of me. Specifically I think trainee is worth it as his 3 cost, so I'd be interesting to see what you think of for that card. I definately agree that the artist himself isnt so great.

-Well trainee is certainly easier to pay for than the artist, but.... he still has the same general weakness's I mentioned about the artist. Specifically he dies easy enough in combat and isn't threatening without gear.

-I think of him as an over-priced Pillaging Pirate that can't be targeted, and honestly.... who targets pillaging pirates anyway?

**Now, I'm not saying the Martial Artist/Trainee are bad cards. They just don't fit this deck. I'm sure you'll see these cards in competetive decks in the future.



...and theres no way I'd be willing to pay a quarter of my life to play the other goon. This deck has been streamlined to draw win conditions, so I dont think Short term investment would be necessary.


Yeah... Concealed goon has pretty much been rendered obsolete. The only downside to Hired over Concealed is that at 4 life Hired can be impecably timed.

[s0b3k]

in so far as people who are "good" hiding their decks i completely agree with Jcaster Hiding your decks for the sake of having a rouge deck is worthless at this point... so long as there is no developed metagame it is near impossible to plan, hurting yes i said it hurting, the chances of the best players. when more people net deck more it is possible to let skill show, because it is a more level playing field, cudoes to the guy that breaks the format but wait until there is a meta. We as spoils players should really take it upon ourself to post, test and tweak decks. I highly recommend checking out the qualifiers list on Froto's site picking some and testing them then throwing them out or modifying them. A small group think tank will eventually lose to the masses almost every time, so long as the masses are active which right now they are not. POST GOOD DECKS I would be more than glad to post mine when they are decent but as of now they need tweaking (though every deck i use is always being tweaked) I qualified with an Auction house deck from a friend of mine and it is alot of fun check it out post your own and qual on frotos site

MAKE SPOILS BETTER POST DECKS THAT ARE ACTUALLY COMPETITIVE