How high do you prioritize signals

[Kallen000]

How much does it affect your first pick decision. Like if there is a shriever attack and a rapine but you think that taking one of the cards will still leave players thinking your not taking that trade will you go for the one that "will" give that signal?

[JayDubbs]

When I am drafting with my normal groups I will put the best card on top so that they know I will be pushing that color to them. I will also put the best card on the bottom, letting them know I will take this color as well. When with an unknown group I will put all of one color together so that they see all of one faction first. Hopefully they see to draft that color from me.

[M_Tabak]

When I am drafting with my normal groups I will put the best card on top so that they know I will be pushing that color to them. I will also put the best card on the bottom, letting them know I will take this color as well. When with an unknown group I will put all of one color together so that they see all of one faction first. Hopefully they see to draft that color from me.

In sanctioned tournaments, you are required to shuffle the pack before passing to the player next to you. This will be added to the Booster Draft Tournament Guide, which is a supplement of the Tenacious Games Official Tournament Policy.

Placing a certain card in a specific position or orientation in an attempt to signal which trade you are in, what trade you think they should be in, etc. is not allowed, and doing so will get you penalties. Avoid this :)

Thanks all,

Matt

[La_Sin_Grail]

And, in general, if your playtest group is... dumb... enough to take the first card they see, or to not take the best card just because it's in the back, you could use some new playtesting people.

I signal with some strenth. The better draft deck I had at the double IQ yesterday was when I forced arcanist all the way- I got some goodies pack three. Forget, swarm of gnats, etc.

My first pack, I opened a forget and a scout as the obvious best cards. I took the forget, because I find arcanist underdrafted, but the scout didn't force my opponent into warlord!!! I was shocked. Sometimes, I guess signaling doesn't always cut it. I have found, though, that when I try similar things with people who play more, it usually works. I think come this summer, signaling will mean a lot more than it does now, because people will understand all the cards and have a better knowledge of the game in general.

Bluffing works best against good players. They have to be good enough to understand what you're bluffing, but not so good they know you don't have it. :P Same thing applies to signaling.

[Kallen000]

which is why all good poker players like to play with other good poker players:D

[JayDubbs]

It is good to know that physically signalling with the cards will earn me a penalty. Don't need that. The habits that I have picked up comes from drafting with the same group alot and this makes the drafting flights go quick. No excuse though.

[M_Tabak]

It is good to know that physically signalling with the cards will earn me a penalty. Don't need that. The habits that I have picked up comes from drafting with the same group alot and this makes the drafting flights go quick. No excuse though.

Yeah, this is just a tournament policy to promote fairness. "Having friends in the draft" shouldn't provide this kind of advantage. I know it sounds a little harsh, but these policies have to apply from the smallest store drafts to the Championship Cruise and everywhere in between.

Back to the original topic, I think the ability to read and send signals won't turn you into a good drafter, but it can turn a good drafter into a great drafter. The ability to stay out of your neighbor's trades cannot be overvalued. By "signals," I just mean the ability to evaluate what is left in the pack and know where to go. There are situations where you open two amazing cards in one trade and a pretty good card in another where going with the very good card is the right play. Having your neighbors fight while you get all the good stuff in pack 2 (and even pack 3) can take your draft deck to a different level.

[Kallen000]

By "signals," I just mean the ability to evaluate what is left in the pack and know where to go

exactly what I am talking about

[hawkeye15420]

Signalling is just as important in spoils as it is in every other tcg. And signalling does not mean how u place the order of cards in a pack u are shipping. Signalling means evaluating a pack and taking the best card from it that isn't going to cause problems from your neighbor later on. For example, if u open a pack that has something like rudo mangod, scout, flaming barduse, and skewer ( a real pack i opened the other day), and the pack has something like a rapine or even a forget as the only strong card in that trade u will almost always want to take the single decent card instead of setting yourself up to fight over rage by taking the clear best card in rudo mangod. Signalling is simply a matter of recognizing what u are telling other people about the draft and hoping that they aren't incredibly thick (but even if they are, the odds are they won't actualy evaluate cards well and cut u off anyways).

[kyoua]

it might not be legal, or it could be. But as I suck at draft and sealed ill take anything that I can get to get a leg up. lmao.

[Brad Meine]

If you've got friends in the draft, ask your buddies to turn card(s) in a pack upside down to signal which colors they are going into. I'm sure TG condones that one. ;)

[Kallen000]

Acutally just take out a sharpie and right MINE! on it that way the signal is really clear or you could also write your name on it.:D

[Swiss]

i dont know about spoils (im new to the game, yet to actually draft) but in magic, signalling makes or breaks your deck if you draft with good people. it should be priority number one on your list, sending clear signals ensures you are not in a dogfight come pack three.

[Tanis143]

Acutally just take out a sharpie and right MINE! on it that way the signal is really clear or you could also write your name on it.:D

:eek:

Um, somehow I dont think thats allowed :cool:

[taintedzodiac]

Having played Magic for ~13 years and been exclusively a draft player for over half of that time, here's my general knowledge as far as signalling is concerned for pack 1:

Your most important picks in the entire draft are the first three. The first pick should NOT decide for certain what you are going to be playing. Your first pick should follow these guidelines:


If you have three cards to choose from that are roughly equal, and two of them are from the same trade, take the third one so that the opponent you pass the pack to will be more likely to go into the trade of the two power cards. This also increases the chance that the two players to your left will be fighting over that trade in pack 2.
If you have more than three cards to choose from, always take a card that leaves at least two powerful cards from another trade in the pack. This is similiar to the previous point.
If each trade that has powerful cards in the pack is equally represented (i.e. there are three cards, from three different trades), it comes down to knowing draft trends. Each player will evaluate the remaining cards that you pass differently, so it's usually the best bet to go with the most poweful card, or to go with the second most powerful card in your mind and pass the most powerful one to try to lure your opponent into that trade.
If there is only one powerful card in the pack (highly unlikely, but it happens), look at the rest of the pack. If the rest of the pack supports the trade that the best card is in, take something from another trade since someone else is going to be locking into that trade down the line. If the rest of the pack is a mix of other trades, take the powerful card, unless it is a bomb...
If you open a bomb (rare or otherwise): Is there another card in the pack that would be considered the best card if there wasn't a bomb in that same pack? Take the bomb. You're getting a great card AND signaling your opponent to take the "best" card that you pass. This DOES NOT APPLY if both the bomb and the good card are in the same trade. If they are both in the same trade, you may seriously want to consider finding an off-trade card that is useful and pass both. This will almost certainly lock the players to your left into that trade.Your second pick is really where you decide at least one trade that you are going to draft for. You need to look at what you get passed, decide if you think the person to your right is signalling you with what is left, and make a major decision to either follow your first pick's trade, or delay your choice until the third pick by taking another trade's card.

By the third pick, you have more than enough information to make an informed decision about where you're going in this draft. There are three possible situations that you will be in:


You have two cards from the same trade. It is best to continue drafting this trade. You should spend the next few picks looking for any good cards that are in another trade, and pick them up as you see them. This will give you a good chance to decide on a support trade, and give you the opening to have your "second trade" be your primary trade if it is underdrafted. If you don't see any good cards in another trade and good cards coming in for the trade of your first picks, you've gotten lucky and are in a great position.
You have two cards, form different trades, and the pack supports either. This is the most versatile and most volatile position to be in. You need to be looking for a power card in either trade, paying the most attention to your second pick's trade. If you see another power card in the same trade as your second pick, you should probably go with it. Getting passed the same trade on both picks is a good signal that it's not being drafted upstream. If you see another card for your first pick's trade, you can generally take it and count on that as a secondary trade at worst.
You have two different trades, and you see absolutely no good cards in this pack that match either. This is the make or break point. You must be very careful here or you will end up with three different trades and no idea where to go from there. Generally, if there is still a good card from a third trade, take it and hope that something shows up to make up your mind in pick 4. If there are no good cards left at all, odds are it was just a bad pack and it's been picked clean already. Take the best card you can find from one of your trades, and see what the fourth pick offers.If you find yourself with no good cards to take in picks 4-9, you are in the wrong trades. This will be most obvious when you see other trades' good cards going by. Accept that you chose wrong, and by all means do NOT attribute it to bad luck. Drafting is a skill and a series of decisions, and experience plays a much larger role that luck ever will.

[Sabash]

Hmmm...I don't know if I've never noticed this before because I wasn't paying attention (this time I was specifically looking for this pattern) or I never noticed it because it's not generally true and this time I just opened a weird box.

But, if it IS true, it seems like signalling may be much easier than I had thought, at least with part 1.

Here's what I noticed while opening 1 box of Part 1 boosters. 3 of the 12 packs had a fairly normal distribution where all five trades were represented as equally as possible. That is, there were 3 cards for each of 3 trades and 2 cards for each of the other 2 trades. 1 of the 12 packs did not include any cards at all for one of the trades. 8 of the 12 packs had 1 trade that was only represented by 1 card in the pack.

If that's the norm for Part 1 packs, it seems like you could signal fairly easily with your first pack 75% of the time by just taking the single card from the under-represented trade. I know for sure that if the first pack that is passed to me doesn't have any Rogue cards, my assumption will be that there was at least 1 Rogue card in the pack and the player to my right took it.

Now granted, that card may be total crap.

[Ruiner EX]

Being a fairly average drafter ( maybe above average ) I personally like to start by taking the strongest card from the first pack, and try and get a read on what my player to my right is taking. Packs 2 onward I focus on trying to send signals, as it lets me line up a good support trade, as hopefully I can dictate what gets passed to me in the 2nd pack from my left. I'm still at the point where I prioritize card strength first, while not neglecting signals. I will rarely pass up a bomb or really strong card though.

I am unsure of the strength of this theory, but in the example given of multiple strong Warlord cards: If you DO take Rudo, and they start to draft the warlord cards, they will get one card, and you procede to cut them off at the pass. They than waste their second pick and are forced to either get sloppy warlord picks packs 1 and 3, or switch colors. This can apply to players who get cards 3 and 4 as well if they take Warlords out of that pack. They will soon see no following Warlord, and "waste" their pick, and possibly other subpar warlord cards chasing it, and your not so bad off.

[Huber]

I try to avoid the type signals given by card positions in the packs seeing as the rules are trying to forbid it, but any other signal is very important and I definetly consider it heavily when thinking about picks.

[stealingblinds]

Signals in Spoils are way different than signals in Magic. The problem that presents itself more often in Spoils is getting cut. The fact that there are two less cards in each pack and that your deck has to be 45 cards, plus the fact that you're going to be running fewer resources than you would lands in a lot of situations means that you need a lot more playables to make ends meet.

My strategy is to completely ignore trades in my first five picks and just take the best card in the pack. After the first few picks, it's usually pretty obvious what's open. A lot of people hate picking good cards that won't make their deck, and your draft sure looks like a mess to anyone watching, but you're sacrificing a couple of early picks to find out what trades you can move in on, which is very important information.

Obviously, this rule isn't absolute. If your first four picks are all Rogue/Arcanist, you probably don't take a Banker card because it's the best in the pack. That's where signalling comes in for you: you ship the guy to your left as few good cards in your trades as possible and as many in every other trade.

[La_Sin_Grail]

Signals in Spoils are way different than signals in Magic. The problem that presents itself more often in Spoils is getting cut. The fact that there are two less cards in each pack and that your deck has to be 45 cards, plus the fact that you're going to be running fewer resources than you would lands in a lot of situations means that you need a lot more playables to make ends meet.

My strategy is to completely ignore trades in my first five picks and just take the best card in the pack. After the first few picks, it's usually pretty obvious what's open. A lot of people hate picking good cards that won't make their deck, and your draft sure looks like a mess to anyone watching, but you're sacrificing a couple of early picks to find out what trades you can move in on, which is very important information.

Obviously, this rule isn't absolute. If your first four picks are all Rogue/Arcanist, you probably don't take a Banker card because it's the best in the pack. That's where signalling comes in for you: you ship the guy to your left as few good cards in your trades as possible and as many in every other trade.


So how soon do you really start looking at trades? I know the last draft deck I played, I thought I was in Rogue/Warlord, but even a scout couldn't hold off the powerful arcniast synergy that came by. I swapped off a really sick card and it turned out great... I think you just need to be aware of what's getting taken instead of following absolute rules. Absolute rules are an easy way to get absolutely ruled.

[stealingblinds]

I completely agree. I've seen some strange things happen in a draft, and a lot of it is caused by the fact that you can't rely on knowing anything. I look at trades from pack one, pick one, but just because I take a good card in a certain trade as my first it doesn't mean that I'm playing that trade. The main thing is to stay flexible as far as trades go, but it's a very difficult thing to do. I mean, you just can't open a Shipping Container in pack three and say "I'm in Gearsmith now", because that's not how Spoils works. If it were Magic you might be able to splash for a very good card you open in pack three, but you need to be committed to your trades in the later portion of the draft, which is why you stay flexible in the beginning. Just taking the best card in the first few packs keeps your options open. You'll probably have an idea of what you want to play, but too many people will just automatically start taking cards in the same trade as their first pick, even if it becomes obvious that that trade isn't avalible and another one is.

There's not really a specific time when your trades should be settled, but halfway through pack one you should have a pretty good idea, and you should know for sure by the end of the pack. The important thing to remember is that you don't know what trades you're playing when you make your first three or four picks.