Major Rules Problem

[FireCat]

I was just reading the 2.02 rules and thought of somthing.

How do cards/effects resolve?

Basically you play it and it is "Being Played".

It dosent say what happens after everyone is done responding.

The only thing I found was that when multiple things happen the person whose turn it is decides.

Rulebook

"What If Multiple Things Happen at the Same Time?

Sometimes a player is instructed to do more than one thing simultaneously. If all the instructions originated from cards under that player’s control then that player decides the order in which the instructions are followed. If instead the instructions originated from cards under both players’ control then whoever’s turn it is decides the order in which the instructions are followed. The order in which instructions are followed does not have to be decided ahead of time; the deciding player can let one instruction be completed then afterwards decide which instruction is followed next. In a few cases, not all of the simultaneous instructions originate from cards. Sometimes, one of the
instructions is created by the rules. When this happens, whoever’s turn it is decides the order in which the instructions are followed."

From what I get from this, the player whose turn it is decides what resolves first. And if muliple things are "Being Played", then the player whose turn it is resolves one thing and then gets to choose things as they happen.

This basically gives total omnipotent power to the person whose turn it is.

That is lame. I might as well not play things during other players' turns.

If this is how you resolve "Being Played", then I will not play by the rules and adopt the Magic "Stack" System.

My guess is that whoever made the rules assumed that it would resolve backwards or forwards.

Would someone from Tenacious please awnser this rules question.

[Sabash]

It dosent say what happens after everyone is done responding.

Sure it does:


How to Play a Card
1. Pick a character, tactic, item, or location card in your hand. Make sure you have sufficient resource
icons in play to meet the card’s threshold.
2. Put the card onto the playing surface face-up. This card is “being played.”
3. Pay all costs for the card. (If you cannot pay any of its costs, then you cannot play the card.)
4. Wait for your opponent to respond to the card. (see “Responding to Your Opponent”)
5. If the card is a character, item, or location put it into play. If the card is a tactic, follow all its
instructions then put it into your discard pile.


How to Use an Ability
1. Announce you are using the ability.
2. Pay all costs for the ability.
3. Wait for your opponent to respond to the ability. (see “Responding to Your Opponent”)
4. Follow all of the ability’s instructions. You must complete the instructions even if the source of the
ability was destroyed after you used it.

[JcaEtoF]

I think what you are looking for can be found in this thread (http://www.thespoils.com/spoils/showthread.php?t=289) in which NearbySerpent of the "Tenacious Games Game Design Team" describes The Spoils equivalent of the stack.




Player A plays Card X.
Player B may now respond to Card X with a tactic or ability.
Player B responds with Tactic Y.
Player A may now respond to Tactic Y with a tactic or ability.
Player A responds with Tactic Z.
Player B may now respond to Tactic Z with a tactic or ability.
Player B plays Ability M.
Player A may now respond to Ability M with a tactic or ability.
Player A chooses not to respond.
Resolve Ability M.
Player B may now respond to Tactic Z with a tactic or ability.
Player B plays Ability M again.
Player A may now respond to Ability M with a tactic or ability.
Player A chooses not to respond.
Resolve ability M.
Player B may now respond to Tactic Z with a tactic or ability.
Player B chooses not to respond.
Resolve Tactic Z.
Player A may now respond to Tactic Y with a tactic or ability.
Player A chooses not to respond.
Resolve Tactic Y.
Player B may now respond to Card X with a tactic or ability.
Player B chooses not to respond.
Resolve Card X.



This was posted quite some time ago, so there may be a newer interpretation or ruling that I missed, but this was the last I remember seeing about resolving multiple tactics/abilities.

[joshlytle]

What Sabash had to say is exactly right. That's what I would have said. However, it seems that the confusion is happening because you are adding things to the rules that aren't there.

There is no stack in The Spoils.

This means that when your opponent responds to you, it happens. It isn't added to the stack and it doesn't wait to resolve. If you look at only what's written in the rulebook, all of these questions are answered. The only thing not answered is how cards should behave on a stack, and since we don't have a stack this question isn't necessary.

Josh Lytle

[RegnorVex]

Hmm, if there is no stack then is the post above from NearbySerpent wrong? Because that's definitely a stack. Card X is played and goes on the stack awaiting resolution while Tactics Y, Z, and M get played, which in turn get resolved in the order M, Z and Y, after which point Card X is resolved. Throughout, each most recent action is put on hold awaiting resolution (i.e., put on the stack) and then resolved LIFO. How is that not a stack?

[joshlytle]

Hmm, if there is no stack then is the post above from NearbySerpent wrong? Because that's definitely a stack. Card X is played and goes on the stack awaiting resolution while Tactics Y, Z, and M get played, which in turn get resolved in the order M, Z and Y, after which point Card X is resolved. Throughout, each most recent action is put on hold awaiting resolution (i.e., put on the stack) and then resolved LIFO. How is that not a stack?

Just because certain behaviors of both systems are similar does not make them the same. A stack is a imaginary construct used in other games to "hold" cards and abilities that are waiting to resolve. We don't have a construct like that.

***WARNING...the words below this are very esoteric and maybe cause your head to explode. Continue reading at your own risk.

If you want to more easily conceptualize what we've got, you could call it a "fractal timing system." This means that one simple interaction described fully in the rules can be repeated many times to create a much larger structure that happens to resemble a stack.

The important thing to take away from this is that other games have everything go onto the stack and wait to resolve. There is nothing like that in our rules. You simply follow the instructions written in the rules, and because of the line that says "wait for your opponent to respond" the system can give you the strategic interplay that the stack provides in other games while not requiring the ability to visualize this imaginary construct thus removing you from the gameplay experience for a moment and causing you to focus on this abstract, non-fun entity. Essentially we get all the upsides of the stack with none of the downsides and it requires only a few rules to do this.

Basically, everything you need to know is written in the rules. Don't add anything to it that isnt there and you'll be fine.

Josh Lytle

[joshlytle]

Okay, so just simply and mind you : SIMPLY : It is L I F O right? I have a tournament tommorrow so Im trying to brush up on all the currents.

No, it's not LIFO because there is no stack in our game from which items must be popped in a certain order. This is what I've been trying to explain from the beginning.

All you need to know is in the rules. There is nothing hidden, nothing extra, nothing missing. Follow the instructions in the "How to Play a Card" and "How to Use an Ability" sections precisely, fully completing each step before moving to the next. At the time in those instructions when it says "wait for your opponent to respond", your opponent may play another card or ability by following the instructions in "How to Respond to Your Opponent."

To claim there is a stack in our game only confuses people. If you think there is a stack, you might think that effects and cards go onto the stack where they wait to resolve. This would cause you to play The Spoils incorrectly. All we have is a simple set of rules that control how cards and abilities that must be electively played can be used in response to each other. This set of rules does not apply to triggers or any other type of card effect. This is an extremely important and central idea to understand.

Josh Lytle